D&D General D&D Evolutions You Like and Dislike [+]

[Remathilis]

Wait, how are scimitars iconic for druids? I have never in my life pictured a druid with a scimitar. I am trying right now and I can't do it!

Gary decided to give druids weapons that resemble sickles (crescent blades) as the sickle was important to druid rituals (harvesting mistletoe for a spell component). The scimitar was the only crescent bladed sword in the PHB. And since it was the only sword druids could use, it was a popular pick for them but an inferior choice if you could get access to better swords. So over the years, a lot of druid weapons that weren't clubs or spears were scimitars. (Ie sylvan scimitar, etc). Now you either have simple weapons (no swords) or martial (with access to longsword, rapiers and great sword) which give you better options.

It's a small thing, but the idea that the scimitar was a druid's weapon was nonsensical historically but iconic to D&D.

 

[dave2008]

It's a small thing, but the idea that the scimitar was a druid's weapon was nonsensical historically but iconic to D&D.

I would say iconic to some people's D&D - definitely not ours! I also don't recall ever seeing druids depicted with a scimitar in D&D art (but could have easily missed that). Thank you for the clarification!

 

[Reynard]

OK @dave2008 those are fighting words! 2e PHB art is the best of D&D!

Well, original 2E PHB art.

 

[Remathilis]

I would say iconic to some people's D&D - definitely not ours! I also don't recall ever seeing druids depicted with a scimitar in D&D art (but could have easily missed that). Thank you for the clarification!

Three Players Handbook druids have them.

(3e, 2e, 5e)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One thing I do NOT like is how the druid has transformed into... whatever it is now. I much prefer the more traditional 1E archetype over the were-berserker thing it has become.

I agree, and i wish the druid were more of a scholar-priest instead of weird shapeshifting nature mage with incongruous divine magic.

The turn into animals class should, imo, be the barbarian or a separa4te class based on the 4e warden.


For me, i will post a full amswer to the thread later but the quick version is:

like: The shift to focus on encounters, though 5e regressed on this from the excellent design of 4e.
Lore evolution wrt species, and other moves toward better inclusivity, notable fumbles aside.

Dislike: the recent trend of just printing as little lore as possible while also taking rivbons and lore based features out of the game.

Everything from not getting extra languages or skills from higher Int to rooting out lore based mechanics from player options like classes.

 

[Willie the Duck]

i believe i read somewhere it's from a bit of a lore interpretation weirdness originating from earlier editions, how the IRL druidic traditions they were based off of there was significance in harvesting mistletoe using golden sickles, i believe sickles didn't exist in some earlier editions and so they were given scimitar proficiency for that purpose instead and it just kind of stuck.

i think, don't quote me on any of that.

Yes.
oD&D didn't have non-military weapons (the reason why basic-classic Magic Users used daggers -- there were no staves as weapons). Original playable druids could use 'sickle-like swords' (which swords were sickle-like? ask your DM).

In AD&D PHB, that became scimitars, as they were still not putting in a lot of non-military weapons (trident, bo/jo sticks, and quarterstaves, I believe).

AD&D 2e added the sickle as a weapon, but kept scimitars as an option.

3e kept scimitars, but those tended to end up in the hands of crit-fishing melee builds, and most druids stayed in bear form as much as possible. Also shillelagh (and brambles) started being good backup melee spells, so druids started becoming stick-fighters, which carried on to 5e

4e was much like 5e24: they had simple weapons, which includes sickles, but not scimitars (although druids of spring get it, while other get different extra weapons).

5e 2014 kept scimitars, but since your str or dex is likely less than your wis, many to most players ended up using shillelagh or a direct damage cantrip instead. So maybe druids have finally lost the scimitar association they've had for ~45-50 years.

 

[dave2008]

Three Players Handbook druids have them. View attachment 427760View attachment 427761View attachment 427762

(3e, 2e, 5e)

I was clearly wrong, but are you sure that 2e one is from the PHB? IIRC, they did change the art in the 2e PHB at one point so maybe that is in the one I don't have.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I see this a lot. What I don't understand is that D&D has always had art that didn't match the medieval theme and had shiny happy people. Also, their is still art that is dark, grim, and medieval in 5e & 5e24 art. So my question to you: how much of one or the other is to much for you?

I know yours is a genuine question an inquiry so will try to answer. First things first: I think 5e (gulp) might be superior to 1e in some respects.

Secondly, if you see it “a lot” there is probably something there. And I think you are asking honestly so I will try to articulate.

Enter all disclaimers about D&D being anachronistic and ahistorical…I get it as a lover of history.

There is no evocation of a real history for me at any point. There is however an evocation of a fantasy archetype of a time and place that never existed except in fiction and pulling a little from history books…tangentially.

It is indeed about proportion. I looked at my brother’s 2024 PHB and just did not enjoy the art direction.

I have lots of 1e modules and of course the hardbacks. Yes, there were line art cartoons...trying to be funny. But if you take the PHB, dmg, and monster manual from 1e, count the scenes of smiling characters and domestic bliss. Now do the same with 2024 PHB alone.

I would say the tone in color choices, spectacle wearing, modern tattoos and sushi and taco eating probably also detract from the vibe for ME and what I am looking for.

I am not saying it is “wrong.” Just not the vibe I like and does not evoke fantasy tropes I like. Happy orc families —not my bag.

None of it is “wrong” and there are plenty of tattoos, colored hair and piercings on my family members and people I love most in my home, right now. But I don’t want to see “them” in the rpg. I am looking for something that is more out of line with the modern.

I hope that helps clarify what I meant and don’t mean a bit of offense to anyone that prefers the new aesthetic. I could even see myself playing an artificer one day…or in a game that has magic ship to ship combat in space.

Not at you Dave, but into the void:

(Bracing for the “you’re focused on only a few pictures,” the game is supposed to appeal to the kids and not 40-50 year old geezers like “you guys,” etc etc etc). I get it.

 

[Parmandur]

OK @Parmandur these are fighting words! BECMI and Deities & Demigods are the best of D&D! Even putting them in the same sentence as a "mistake" is a horrendous miscarriage of justice! This take has seriously tainted my opinion of you past and present!

Read with a bit of tongue firmly held in cheek...but I am generally not a fan of how D&D was developed over time at TSR, as someone looking back from outside the experience of the time.

I love the 2E art, though.

 

[Parmandur]

Your point made at the time others commented was that before 3e, the max was 18. This is clearly not the case. If it was correct except for things that you define as mistakes, we can accept it as a no-true-Scotsman style statement. But why not just say, 'Sorry, I misspoke. What I meant was initially capped at 18, and without clear intent that you regularly and routinely rise above that number (as is the case in 3e and beyond).'? That's certainly an accurate position.

I will amend my statement that 3E made mistakes to TSR having made mistakes.

The Internet and human civilization may also have been mistakes. Turtles all the way down.