D&D: How Many Core Books

Joshua Dyal said:
I've never been part of a group in which all the players weren't also GMs, at least from time to time.
I've never been a part of a group where there was not a single, consistent DM. We know there are more players than DMs - that's why game companies make more books for players than they do for GMs. Why chase the smaller market?

YMMV, as with all things.
 

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Estlor said:
My argument here is a bit extreme on purpose. If you made D&D a one book game, it would be a very different game. The options we've come to expect (and have made 3e so popular) would be sacrificed in whole or in part to save space. And if you cut 300 pages of material, then release three 100 page supplements with the cut material, it defeats the purpose.
It's also a bit wrong, although probably not on purpose. Have you seen d20 Modern? Sure, it's only got one race, but it has more classes than D&D, and has actually pretty extensive monster sections, magic and psionics sections, and magic item sections. In fact, a very big and common complaint from many was that d20 Modern was too much like D&D.
 

I dint realy see a need to consoldate the books into a single volume... why should a player have to pay extra for something they will never need (like the dungeon creation guide in the DMG or the monsters in the MM). I honestly dont see how every player needs all three. You dont need to own a copy of the DMG to make a character beyond 1st level (I havent opened my DMG in years, and as a player I've only looked in it once or twice). having monsters in there makes even less sense... the list would have to be comprehensive enough to provide a good variety, which would leave little room for all the summon creatures.
 

SRD Breakdown

mmadsen said:
How else might you divide up the current three core books?
If you look at the SRD, WotC grouped the rules as follows:
Grouped SRD Downloads
* Basic Rules and Legal (442k ZIP)
* Spells (299k ZIP)
* Magic Items (227k ZIP)
* Monsters (584k ZIP)
* Psionics (204k ZIP)
* Epic (310k ZIP)
* Divine (57k ZIP)​
That would imply three core books: Basic Rules, Spells & Magic Items, and Monsters -- with non-core books for Psionics, Epic, and Divine.
 
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Ibram said:
I dint realy see a need to consoldate the books into a single volume... why should a player have to pay extra for something they will never need (like the dungeon creation guide in the DMG or the monsters in the MM). I honestly dont see how every player needs all three. You dont need to own a copy of the DMG to make a character beyond 1st level (I havent opened my DMG in years, and as a player I've only looked in it once or twice). having monsters in there makes even less sense... the list would have to be comprehensive enough to provide a good variety, which would leave little room for all the summon creatures.

As a secret santa I got my brother in law this year. He asked for a family game. There is him, my sister (who likes Andrew scott card novels), and my two nieces (12 and 14 who like the hobbit).

I wanted to get him D&D so they could play a bunch, but I didn't want just levels 1-3 with pre-done characters and almost no options. I wanted the system with some options so the basic versions as I understand them didn't meet my desired needs. I could have gotten the three core books but our secret santa system runs on a set budget range so $50 would not cover all three books unless I hunted down used copies which I didn't have time to do.

Instead I got him Axis and Allies and he was quite happy with it. But I wish I had a single book system to get them for D&D that was comparable to the d20 Wheel of Time book which has multiple classes, races, a magic system, monsters, combat, advancement, feats and skills, equipment, and a whole setting with gazetteer and world history/cosmology.
 

It is real annoying that there are incomplete parts of the PH.

I can summon a medium elemental, but I can't know anything about them except their name.

I know my familiar has evasion, but I don't know his reflex save.

I really liked the classes in the Everquest rpg and wanted to integrate them into D&D, but how can you use the magician class that acts like a summoner without knowing the monster stats which are only in their monsters of norrath book? How about the beast master who have a big deal about their bound animal companion? These are all in a separate appendix in their monster book, they could have been in the PH and left the monster book to monsters the PCs can only encounter instead of have as part of their class abilities.
 

I wouldn't mind seeing a certain redistribution of materials, but I don't think a single book is a good idea.

I'm firmly of the mind that the players don't need to see the monsters, so I'd like to see them in a separate book. I could buy into including animals in the PHB, though. That'd solve the two most common issues: mounts and familiars. I could also see some downside to splitting up monster stat-blocks, though.

It'd be great to have the condition summary stuff in the PHB, so that I could just tell the players, "You're fatigued," and have them understand or look it up on their own -- I regularly have to stop the game to supply a summary of a condition to a player. Since WotC have decided to put PrCs in player books (pretty much every book, actually), they may as well put the handful from the DMG into the PHB, too. The variant character creation (esp. point buy) should be in the PHB, too.

Magic items should stay in the DMG, since they're treasure an "examples". I'd rather see players encouraged to come up with their own stuff. Of course, if you're running a "magic items on the store shelves" game, the opposite is true.

I'd also like to see a lot of the cool things from the 1E DMG thrown in: better quick personalities, herb properties, gem properties, dungeon dressing, colors and other descriptive words, etc. The DMG is, also, the right place to talk about cosmology, divinity, and epic levels. Of course, a chapter, each, on adventure design and worldbuilding should be the meat of the book -- from the sounds of it, the DMG II might be a better DMG than the DMG. Even after a couple of decades, there are quite a few little tricks that I know, but tend to forget.

As far as cutting stuff, I could see quite a few spells moved to expansion books (Complete X). It also wouldn't bother me to see Druids, Bards, Paladins, Monks, and maybe Barbarians and Sorcerers moved to a "Complete" book. Many DMs get all the Complete books, anyway, so no harm shuffling some things that way. The plus to WotC is that more players will probably pick up these "Complete" books. Even some feats could be shuffled that way. Do I think these things need to be moved somewhere else? No (okay, maybe paladin), but I don't see it as a violation of any principles, either.

Ultimately, I'd like the PHB to be all the main rules. The stuff a body needs to play the game -- to follow the action.

The DMG should be, primarily a resource for "downtime" when you're creating or reviewing an adventure. You know, stuff that might guide the DM in setting up the game, but probably won't be needed at the table. Not just advice, but something reusable.

The Monster Manual is a collection of critters and rules that specifically apply to using, creating, and advancing them. The DM may need this at the table and during planning, but it's still a dedicated book.

I like the UA book of variants, too. Maybe not a core book, but definitely something that I hope sees print for all future editions of the game.
 

My suggested breakdown:

D&D Core Rulebook
- All the rules from the Players Handbook
- All the rules from the Dungeon Masters Guide
- Minimal list of spells
- Minimal list of magic items
- Minimal list of monsters: animals, summonable monsters, goblins, ogres, typical NPC foes, etc.

Monster Manual
- All the monsters
- Savage Species-style rules for monster PCs

Dungeon Masters Guide
- Suggestions and advice from the current Dungeon Masters Guide
- Content from the upcoming Dungeon Masters Guide II
 

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