D&D: Insider Tools - will they succeed?

[delericho]

Anyway, does anyone else suspect that the D&D Digital Initiative is headed for a rocky start?

In theory, they have had two years to develop this thing, the same two years that 4e has been in development. I would very much like to believe that they have been designing the DI in parallel with 4e, at least handling things like the UI and the non-rules-specific stuff, so it's already almost ready to go.

I would like to believe that, but I'm afraid I just don't.

Sadly, I expect the rollout of the DI tools to be very much like the rollout of the digital magazines - fairly sporadic, with a lot of functionality missing at the start, and with lots of promises that it will be cool 'really soon'. Unfortunately, this will be met with a lot of people signing up on day 1, being sorely underwhelmed, and dropping out.

Which is very unfortunate, because if they could actually deliver on their promises, and if they could build a big enough community of subscribers, it would be the greatest thing for gaming since... well, ever.

 

[Cbas_10]

I'm hoping that the online tools and the whole suite of the DDI works out well. I'm also hoping something comes along to charm my interest into 4e, but that is a different discussion. As foolish as I think it was to pull the two magazines from print to online, that is what we are stuck with, now. Thus, a subscription makes perfect sense and seems fair. If the content compares to the content that was in the magazines (a handful of adventures and a handful of marquee articles supported by a smattering of minor side-show bits) and we are not bombarded by advertisements, ten bucks a month for just the Dungeon and Dragon magazines seems perfectly reasonable. A smart thing would be to offer discounted rates for longer terms of subscription...just a normal aspect of any online and print subscriptions.

Now...as for the tools part. First thing needs to be gotten off of my chest: "collectible" digital miniatures that cost money in the same fashion as boxes of physical minis??? I really hope this was a drunken thought abandoned with the next morning's clear mind. I can sort of understand the concept in a model such as Magic: the Gathering. The game is all about collecting and playing with the cool stuff. I could also see this for playing the D&D minis game online (I would actually love this....using the digital format to see and use 3D terrain instead of cards on a mat). But....having to say "Imagine that ogre on the screen is a large dragon instead....i don't have the digital dragon yet" seems like a TRUE money grab on behalf of Wizards. Charge a few bucks a month for the access to tools....and just let us use monsters, ok? It's not like we can tuck them into our gaming bag and take them home. Other than that, I can understand trying to open up to a market of players that have desires for a better venue for gaming online (truckers, people living in remote areas, family-oriented people that may not have the space or resources to host/travel to a game, etc). I'm not a computer programmer, but I can't imagine such a suite of tools and the act of hosting the connections would be minor acts. Things that are major endeavors cost money.

In the end...Tools/online desktop should be one price, and the Dragon/Dungeon e-zines should be another price....with a bit of a discount for getting both. Many here have no use for the e-zines, and I have no use for the online tools (I can't be the only one who simply wants to continue enjoying the magazines and run our tabletop games like we always have).

One or more of you expressed concerns about the bias towards high-speed broadband internet services. Unfortunately, as the years roll by and technology becomes more commonplace, it becomes less and less feasible and economically beneficial to cater to a diminishing segment of the market. As an example...I currently enjoy 8.99 per month cable service instead of the "standard" Digital signal via the cable box converter and the hundreds of channels for 45$+ per month. However, in February, Digital will be the only option and the 8.99 non-digital service disappears. It sucks, but those of us that are final hold-outs of low-tech (whether it is by choice or circumstance) eventually must find a way to join the other 90%+ of the market in question.

 

[Tquirky]

Subscriptions are not a new way of doing business. Magazines and newspapers have had subscriptions for over a hundred years.

And you get something physical from that. Online subscription magazines failed back in the dotcom days. In fact, the whole thing smacks of dotcom era naivety.

MMORPGs give you something tangible - basically the equivalent of a theme park ride, upfront. DI, from what we've heard, gives you the opportunity to dream about playing games...there had better be a huge rabbit in that hat to overcome this, because subscriptions only seem to work when you get something substantial. I'm not sure that virtual miniatures meets that definition.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

And you get something physical from that. Online subscription magazines failed back in the dotcom days. In fact, the whole thing smacks of dotcom era naivety.

MMORPGs give you something tangible - basically the equivalent of a theme park ride, upfront. DI, from what we've heard, gives you the opportunity to dream about playing games...there had better be a huge rabbit in that hat to overcome this, because subscriptions only seem to work when you get something substantial. I'm not sure that virtual miniatures meets that definition.

I don't know. I'll be signing up. Because I could REALLY use a character creator program that has all the feats, skills, and everything from ALL books shortly after they come out. And there has never been one.

The ability to search for and find a game online any time I want is really appealing as well. Plus the ability to plan out encounters with the encounter tool sounds pretty nice. If I can look through all the monsters and see their stats if I registered the book and be able to search through them or sort them based on level or type or other things, I'd love that.

A stable gaming platform for playing with my friends might be worth it as well, and we might get more games done if we didn't have travel time. I still don't KNOW if we'd use it when we could get together face to face, but we might.

As for MMORPGs, what do you get that is tangible? You get the ability to connect to a game and play it. If you can log into the DDI and have a character creator, character visualizer, and the ability to search for a game to play (and an organized play venue in Living Forgotten Realms and whatever Eberron campaign the RPGA is running) it means you can log in and search for a game at almost any time, be able to jump into one with strangers after making a character and play.

Almost identical to what MMORPGs offer without the ability to play by yourself.

Plus, it gives you stories, comics, ideas, adventures to run for your friends, and more.

 

[Tquirky]

I don't know. I'll be signing up. Because I could REALLY use a character creator program that has all the feats, skills, and everything from ALL books shortly after they come out. And there has never been one.

Putting aside the fact that 4E has arguably failed in a major design goal if it needs a character creator to efficiently make NPCs, this will be very quickly outflanked by 3rd party volunteer efforts. Just look at all the character creators for 3E.

The only way they can keep this from happening is by wielding their legal department to keep this aspect of DI relevant, artificially, similarly to how they dealt with PCGen.

The ability to search for and find a game online any time I want is really appealing as well. Plus the ability to plan out encounters with the encounter tool sounds pretty nice. If I can look through all the monsters and see their stats if I registered the book and be able to search through them or sort them based on level or type or other things, I'd love that.

A stable gaming platform for playing with my friends might be worth it as well, and we might get more games done if we didn't have travel time. I still don't KNOW if we'd use it when we could get together face to face, but we might.

Do you work for WOTC?

As for MMORPGs, what do you get that is tangible? You get the ability to connect to a game and play it. If you can log into the DDI and have a character creator, character visualizer, and the ability to search for a game to play (and an organized play venue in Living Forgotten Realms and whatever Eberron campaign the RPGA is running) it means you can log in and search for a game at almost any time, be able to jump into one with strangers after making a character and play.

Almost identical to what MMORPGs offer without the ability to play by yourself.

If they can deliver on that, then you may have a point. Again, though, it can be outflanked, just like it has been for M:tg. I have a distance student mate who spends most of his day on the free, non-WOTC equivalent of Magic Online. This is low tech software, and therefore easily replicated (unlike a MMORPG). Predictably, once WOTC has "shown the way", the open source community will have a target to aim for, and all they'll be able to do is try and protect the IP, again.

Plus, it gives you stories, comics, ideas, adventures to run for your friends, and more.

Again, you sound like a marketing guy on a pitch...force of habit?

(I kid.)

 

[mhensley]

Right now I have about zero confidence in their ability to create something worth subscribing to. How many months have they been working on Gleemax? It's still a big pile of crap. The D&D site is worse now than before. Dragon and Dungeon are now barely worth looking at for free.

 

[carmachu]

The new philosophy has shown it works. People pay subscription fees for all sorts of things: xbox lives, MMORPGs, memberships to some websites, gaming magazines, etc.

I think the DI will appeal to those who are already used to the new way of doing things and that will hold it aloft until a lot of the people who are set in their ways eventually change their mind and get it.

The new way only works if you put out a product that is attractive AND works.

I dont mean to cast cold water on your idea, but WotC's past attempts at things digitak or webbased has NOT been good. What makes you think thats going to change now, out of curiousity?

Their making a bold thrust folward. Without a doubt. But they've.....not reached the hieghts they choose before. What makes this different?

 

[Tquirky]

Their making a bold thrust folward. Without a doubt. But they've.....not reached the hieghts they choose before. What makes this different?

If M:tG was a license to print money, then Magic Online took away the printing costs. I have a vague memory of it being some sort of success? Money for jam.

At a guess, WOTC has looked at D&D and thought, "hey, we can do the same thing we did with virtual cards with virtual miniatures." It'll be interesting to see if they're right.

All the articles, generators etc. is probably just bait for buying the virtual miniatures.

It's a bit of a crapshoot, though...M:tG players lust after cards to complete some deck concept, whereas IMO D&D players have different goals; the players are generally seeking powerups and some fun with mates, and the DMs seeking ego-gratification and self-actualisation in the worldbuilding and semi-autistic reality-control departments (DM psychology would be an interesting thesis topic - there's some beautiful stuff in there).

In this respect, the miniatures are not an object of power lust in and of themselves as cards are in M:tG, but more of a sideshow (i.e. I has an orc empire. Oh noes I does not have enough orc miniatures to be portraying an orc empire!). For players, the real power payoff is on the character sheet, and for DMs, the real payoff is stamping their personality on the rules, campaign and the world, with attendant egoboosts and creative gratification (thus the eternal popularity of homebrewed worlds and adventures, and house rules).

Provision of an online game is an oblique yet solid step towards selling miniatures, but WOTC probably won't get the direct sell with miniatures and D&D that they got with cards and M:tG....because the player psychology is very different.

 

[Aeolius]

The more useful of the D&D Insider Tools, the character generator and dungeon creator, will not work on the Mac platform; making them less useful than garbage. Suppose I wanted to get the online mags. I would refuse to do so, because they are bundled with content that is effectively useless.

 

[carmachu]

If M:tG was a license to print money, then Magic Online took away the printing costs. I have a vague memory of it being some sort of success? Money for jam.

At a guess, WOTC has looked at D&D and thought, "hey, we can do the same thing we did with virtual cards with virtual miniatures." It'll be interesting to see if they're right.

All the articles, generators etc. is probably just bait for buying the virtual miniatures.

It's a bit of a crapshoot, though...M:tG players lust after cards to complete some deck concept, whereas IMO D&D players have different goals; the players are generally seeking powerups and some fun with mates, and the DMs seeking ego-gratification and self-actualisation in the worldbuilding and semi-autistic reality-control departments (DM psychology would be an interesting thesis topic - there's some beautiful stuff in there).

In this respect, the miniatures are not an object of power lust in and of themselves as cards are in M:tG, but more of a sideshow (i.e. I has an orc empire. Oh noes I does not have enough orc miniatures to be portraying an orc empire!). For players, the real power payoff is on the character sheet, and for DMs, the real payoff is stamping their personality on the rules, campaign and the world, with attendant egoboosts and creative gratification (thus the eternal popularity of homebrewed worlds and adventures, and house rules).

Provision of an online game is an oblique yet solid step towards selling miniatures, but WOTC probably won't get the direct sell with miniatures and D&D that they got with cards and M:tG....because the player psychology is very different.

Magic isnt D&D as you pointed out. Success in magic(I'll take you word for it, I havent played since revised, nor will I again) is one thing, but they havent had success with D&D, Digitally yet. Their last outing was less than desireable.

we'll see I guess.