"D&D is evil. I have seen it from the inside."

[Hand of Evil]

I am looking forward to it - I have not been a lurker, I joined the first day I found the site.

I will be staying for quite some time, if that is okay with everyone. I think that I may be able to add perspective to something (even if it is nothing more than the viewpoint of a jacka**).

Welcome to the boards. EN.World has a great April's Fools Day and a fantastic Talk Like a Pirate Day, Sept 19.

 

[Torm]

For someone who is not of the JudeoChristian background (which I assume you are not due to your Wiccan/Deistic background).

I was raised by an Athiest (who prayed to G-d when things were really bad, on the basis that "it can't hurt" ), and a Satanist masquerading as a Penecostal Holiness. My dad didn't allow me to be exposed to much in the way of religion until I was in Jr. High. Since then, I've exposed myself to a bit of all of it - if it's good, it is helpful, and if (as was the case with Satanism) it really is bad, well, "know thy enemy." (Satanists, at least Lord Egan's group, are some of the nicest people you'd never want to meet. ) And good or bad, it helps in dealing with people, when you know where they're coming from.

this is very well said.

Thank ye kindly.

Lemmings, more like it. And, unlike Chick, I know this for a fact, because I am one of them. A sheep, not a lemming. But that is a different discussion.

Did you know that the 'lemming mass suicide' thing is a myth compounded by a hoax perpetrated by employees of the Disney company? See here for more info.

There's nothing wrong with placing your faith, even your soul, with someone or something else. But it IS wise to do a little research and make sure you know what you're dealing with, first...

 

[Dr Awkward]

Since there are several folks from the time and industry who read these boards, I'm curious if someone can verify that this mentioned appearance is based in some truth/fact. Or did any of you gamers actually see/hear this episode of The 700 Club with the game insider? If this incident is true, who was the fellow?

It's been a little while since I've checked on this, but if memory serves, the employee who appeared on the 700 Club had parted with TSR on bad terms, which could explain why he wanted to spread propaganda. I thought Stackpole covered this in The Pulling Report, but I don't see it in there. I'll check my sources as soon as I can and get back to you.


What annoys me more than spreading warmed-over urban legends is Schnoebelen's subtle (and sometimes not so) attempt at creating a false dichotomy between Christians and gamers - suggesting that they are polar opposites, and at one point even going so far as to contrast the social values of each:

"Down through the ages, no institution has done more to help the poor, the orphans and the starving than has the church of Jesus Christ. I would just ask them where are the rescue missions and orphanages started by D&D gamers?"*

Gamers start rescue missions and orphanages and do many things to help others, just like Christians do, and just like Christian gamers do. There is no dichotomy.

Then again, it might be wrong to give too much weight to the words of anyone who actually believes in Cthulhu...

"Contrary to the ramblings of D&D defenders like Michael Stackpole, the Necronomicon and the Cthulhu mythos are quite real."*

I wonder if he sleeps ON his bed... or UNDER it?

- Bill


* "Should a Christian Play Dungeons & Dragons?," http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp

 

[chrisnd]

Did you know that the 'lemming mass suicide' thing is a myth compounded by a hoax perpetrated by employees of the Disney company? See here for more info.

There's nothing wrong with placing your faith, even your soul, with someone or something else. But it IS wise to do a little research and make sure you know what you're dealing with, first...

As for the lemmings, thanks for the input. I just always assumed they were stupid creatures. Oh, how I like snopes!

As for the faith thing, I have already taken your comments to heart. My faith (as does the faith of many) by default will force you into doing research. At least that is the way it should be. I think that in the case of those who actually believe what Jack Chick has to say are clearly those who have forgotten how to research, and take him blindly at his word.

As one other poster put it, please pass the Kool-Aid!

 

[cybertalus]

Um.... I'd like a citation from this bozo on any ritual -- real or false -- that is actually described in detail in any edition of D&D.

Does Dragon magazine count?

Issue #110, page 9 of the magazine, top of the third column describes in quite a bit of detail the process for creating a dracolich, including the specific ingredients of the potion involved. Now granted the process only works on dragons-- which don't exist in the real world-- and also requires ingredients which don't exist in the real world, but it is a ritual and it is described in detail.

 

[Torm]

"Down through the ages, no institution has done more to help the poor, the orphans and the starving than has the church of Jesus Christ. I would just ask them where are the rescue missions and orphanages started by D&D gamers?"*

Yeah. This one kinda bugs me as well, when some people try to use the strength and effectiveness of Christian run charity organizations as some sort of proof that other faiths or peoples or groups are some sort of slackers.

When I first became involved with Wicca, I was briefly disheartened when I discovered that there really weren't any Wiccan-based charitable organizations or programs to speak of. I spoke to some other Wiccans, though, and discovered the truth of the matter - Christian groups have a good reputation (as compared to most people's perception of Wicca), they're so good at large-scale organization (as opposed to Pagan groups being encouraged to maintain small groups - usually no more than about 13), and they've been consistently at it for so long (and why other religions haven't, I won't touch here), that it just makes more sense to contribute to one of their groups than to try to start your own - if your goal is really to help people, and not just PR.

The Salvation Army, for example, does a lot of good, and I wouldn't take that away. But while the good they do is credited as being that of a Christian charity group, I've never had any of the bellringers ask me if I'm a (Wiccan/D&D Player/Reform Party Candidate/Lesbian/Rap Singer/etc) when putting my money in the little pot....

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

I started playing in 84-85. The most complex "ritual" I recall with spell casting was saying "I cast Fireball". If magic was real, and that easy, we would all be wearing pointy hats. So, that alone tells me the whole thing is made up.

Blackleaf, could you pass the Cool-Aid please?

Gentlemen, please...the correct terminology is "Kool" Aid.

(Sorry, but the allusion gave me an attack of the nostalgies )

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

And, as many others have stated, certain members of religious groups (and I am thinking mostly towards Christians) can be narrow-minded bunch of sheep. Lemmings, more like it.

Moderators, this is simply out of line. I'm not even sure why this explicitly *religious* thread hasn't been shut down yet, but as a Jew I certainly take offense to religious folks being called "sheep" and "lemmings".

 

[Whimsical]

am probably one of the few people here who are willing to actually discuss their Christian faith as it applies to the d20 game (mostly because I don't want to break the main rules, so I need to make the connection somehow).

You are of course welcome here. If you are looking for Christian gamers, then I recommend that you join the Christian Gamer's Guild mailing list. This is the group that has produced the excellent Confessions of a Dungeons & Dragons™ Addict response to allegations and concerns about D&D that I refer people to (or print then hand it to them).

For anyone who is a gamer and wants to talk about religion or polititcs, particularly in the context of gaming, I recommend the Gamers, Ethics, and Religion board. This board has the opposite rule of the EN World boards, and you are encouraged to talk about issues that may devolve into heated exchanges on other boards. But I think you will find it quite civil and positive there.

This information has been provided by me, a friendly agnostic atheist.

 

[Quasqueton]

Moderators, this is simply out of line. I'm not even sure why this explicitly *religious* thread hasn't been shut down yet, but as a Jew I certainly take offense to religious folks being called "sheep" and "lemmings".

Yeah, this thread has taken an entirely different tack than I wanted or expected.

If this thread gets shut down, I'd really appreciate if I could still ask for info on this "fellow" referenced in the article. Maybe the mods could just delete the posts talking about religion?

I specifically quoted only part of the article (and did not give a link) to avoid bringing religion into the discussion. I'm rather surprised, and disappointed, this turned into a "Comparitive Religion" thread. Is there anyway to remove the religion posts without killing the whole thread?

Quasqueton