"D&D is evil. I have seen it from the inside."

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No, Quas, I have no information on the two Former T$R employess who Schnoebelen claims came to visit himself and his wife, nor the former employee who appeared on the 700 Club (which, I believe, is no more -- the 700 Club, that is)! Sorry.

For the rest of this Off-Topic thread, I would like to address the Double Standard of ENWorld (and yes, there is one). Chick-Bashing (as opposed to Chick's Arguement-Bashing) is not only common, but En Vogue, here, as well as among gamers, in general. Fundamentalist-Christian-Bashing is about as popular.

Shame on you, ENWorlders! The board I was on, prior to coming to ENWorld, I left for just this reason... It is pretty dead, now. As a Fundamentalist Christian, myself, and a gamer since the 1e days, back before AD&D came to be considered "bad", it truely saddens me that some of you would go this route.

As already stated, here, in this thread, your comments are offending a lot of the folks here on this board... your fellow ENWorlders. And if a neutral Fundamentalist Christian wandered into this thread, doing a paper on "Is D&D Evil" for his seminary dissertation, and read some of the posts on the front page? Would he be convinced?

And if he read further, and saw the ones about all D&D players being irredemably evil, and/or sacrificing animals? Wouldn't he be more likely to conclude that D&D really IS evil, than otherwise? (Were there even any smileys in those posts?)

Y'know, several people have commented on "these people" (dangerous territory, already!) being unwilling to do their own research on D&D... But I wonder how many D&Ders have done their own research on why they have these concerns? If not, then how are you any better than them? :uhoh:

In general, things that promote rational discussion are good, while ones that lead to "Us vs. Them" mentality are bad. Unfortunately, this thread pretty much falls into the latter category. So, let's drop it, shall we?

Quasqueton started this thread to try to determine IF there is any truth to the claims in Schnoebelen's article, as quoted in the first post. So far, we've heard little on that, except that maybe the guy who might have appeared on the 700 Club was a freelancer, instead of a T$R employee... maybe.

Can any of these "facts" be confirmed? (Quas, you might try posting this to the Gygax Q&A threads, or linking from there to here, as if anyone knows, he might).

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled religion-bashing...
 

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Here's the Topic:

Quasqueton said:
Since there are several folks from the time and industry who read these boards, I'm curious if someone can verify that this mentioned appearance is based in some truth/fact. Or did any of you gamers actually see/hear this episode of The 700 Club with the game insider? If this incident is true, who was the fellow?

Quasqueton

Let's stick to it, shall we?
 


Tom Cashel said:
D&D is evil.

And everyone who plays it is irredeemably evil.

Them's the facts.

I think you mistaking gamers for humanity at large...

ALL humans are evil to some degree. It's in the genes...

Later,
 

Steverooo said:
For the rest of this Off-Topic thread, I would like to address the Double Standard of ENWorld (and yes, there is one). Chick-Bashing (as opposed to Chick's Arguement-Bashing) is not only common, but En Vogue, here, as well as among gamers, in general. Fundamentalist-Christian-Bashing is about as popular.

As already stated, here, in this thread, your comments are offending a lot of the folks here on this board... your fellow ENWorlders. And if a neutral Fundamentalist Christian wandered into this thread, doing a paper on "Is D&D Evil" for his seminary dissertation, and read some of the posts on the front page? Would he be convinced?

And if he read further, and saw the ones about all D&D players being irredemably evil, and/or sacrificing animals? Wouldn't he be more likely to conclude that D&D really IS evil, than otherwise? (Were there even any smileys in those posts?)

In general, things that promote rational discussion are good, while ones that lead to "Us vs. Them" mentality are bad. Unfortunately, this thread pretty much falls into the latter category. So, let's drop it, shall we?

Steveroo, I think that you state some very important things. I also think that you have hit the head on the nail in terms of answering the original question as it was posted by Quas.

However, I do not think that this discussion has degenerated to an "us vs. them" mentality. I would argue that it has been the opposite. It has sparked discussion with respect to the treatment of gamers (especially D&D gamers) by some who are "fringe" members of a particular group (in this case, Chick Ministries). Chick Ministries is a "fringe" group, followed by SOME "lemmings" who refuse to do their own research. I have met many Christians who have mindlessly set aside D&D as nothing but evil and wrong due to the misinformation that they have received from the likes of Chick Ministries without ever looking into the facts.

The facts are such - D&D is not evil, it does not teach you how to cast spells, it does not teach you how to worship gods, it does not teach you how to pick someone's pockets, and it does not teach you how to swing a sword to kill your neighbor. Heck, it doesn't even SHOW you those things, let alone teach you. The whole discussion was started based on an article written by Jack Chick denouncing D&D as evil - and the majority of the replies have been related to "debunking" that myth. Yes, some of those replies have been an "us vs. them" approach, but isn't that many times the structure of discussions that are not clearly a "preaching to the chior" discussion? But it has not turned into a religious post as some have speculated, and it certainly has not violated the rules (at least not IMO, but I am not a moderator).

It certainly has been interesting, and short of some of the odd comments related to being 1/4th Satanists (which, by the way, covers my right arm and hand, and most of my face), has been pretty much on target. We have discussed the "issues" in the article written by Jack Chick, we have presented cases disclaiming his "supposed" facts, and we have discussed "why" Jack Chick would not only write such an article, but "why" some people are willing to believe the blatantly "wrong" commentary without doing any research or truth searching.

Oh, and sorry if I offended anyone by discussing their religion in a negative way, spelled God with the "o", offended Jack Chick by saying he is wrong, or scared away any potential religious person who may have been researching this particular topic - it was not intentional.

Oh, and by the way, I have been here for almost two months, and I still have not run in to any "Fundamentalist Christian Bashing" - thought I saw it, but it was clearly and promptly corrected. I actually feel pretty good being here because "FCB" DOESN'T exist!
 

Steveroo has a good point; I haven't seen a pattern of fundamentalist Christian bashing here, but I think many Jack Chick threads stray dangerously close or cross the line. We don't tolerate this sort of prejudice any more than we do prejudice against other religions, gender, or skin color. Please be aware of this when you post, and stringently avoid criticizing religions that are not your own. Heck, don't even criticize your own religion. Our "no religion, no politics" rules are here for a very good reason, and I think they make these boards a much friendlier place.

The only people that we DO discriminate against on a regular basis are those people who prefer hex maps or squares. You guys are freaks. :D
 

From The Rules thread, above...

Keep it civil: Don't engage in personal attacks, name-calling, or blanket generalizations in your discussions. Say how you feel or what you think, but be careful about ascribing motives to the actions of others or telling others how they "should" think. People seeking to engage and discuss will find themselves asking questions, seeking clarifications, and describing their own opinion. People seeking to "win an argument" sometimes end up taking cheap shots, calling people names, and generally trying to indimidate others. My advice: don't try to win.

...(emphasis added).

See post #11, in this thread, and consider...

Now, about those three TSR employees (or former employees)?
 
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Torm said:
As a former Wiccan priest (moved on to Deism, the belief of most of the American Founders) who has studied a great deal of world religion, I'd like to comment on a few things:

Torm, I've done a bit of reading and research about Deism in the ancient and medieval world, however; know very little about it in the modern world. I would love to hear exactly what it entails as a faith today. If you have a few minutes, I would really appreciate it if you would shoot me an email about it at elizabeth . bauman @ gmail . com.

Thanks!
 

chrisnd said:
As for the lemmings, thanks for the input. I just always assumed they were stupid creatures. Oh, how I like snopes!

As for the faith thing, I have already taken your comments to heart. My faith (as does the faith of many) by default will force you into doing research. At least that is the way it should be. I think that in the case of those who actually believe what Jack Chick has to say are clearly those who have forgotten how to research, and take him blindly at his word.

As one other poster put it, please pass the Kool-Aid!
On this note, there's a sign out in front of a church where I went to college that sums up the importance of "research" and "study" to any faith (but particularly the Christian one, since that is what it referenced). It says simply, "Faith, and Reason, and Works."

It's fine to let the heart lead, but the brain is not to be ignored.
 

Steverooo said:
See post #11, in this thread, and consider...

Actually, I deleted the post in question because it violated our no religion-bashing rules. The current post #11 is the former post #12.

Carry on with the discussion -- and thanks for working to keep it positive, productive and within EN World guidelines.
 

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