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Message: <blockquote data-quote="renau1g" data-source="post: 5934127" data-attributes="member: 54810">Really? You're tired of it? I'd love it if my players invested time into their PC's like that. If it was super-duper deadly, 1 bite from a rat kills you, well I'd expect them to play paper-thin PC's and be bored as a DM with no hooks to draw from. I've looked over the playtest PC's and they're a far cry from super heroes. Hyperbole FTW! IMO 4e had the most competent 1st level PC's, they had very high survivability and access to fairly powerful abilities regularly. I'd like to step back from there, but not all the way to house cat fearing wizards. So we have some that want super-gritty, barely above commoner PC's that are starting their journey from 0, while another that wants their PC's to have some level of competence from the start. Personally, I think a 0-level module would work well, it would still allow those in the 2nd group to start at level 1 and experience the full level curve, and it would allow those in the first group to start at their very beginning level of adventuring (which probably tend to skew towards older players that the earliest editions of the game was more like). Again, this is my opinion.</blockquote>