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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5941833" data-attributes="member: 87792">Because a 1hp monster in other editions isn't any sort of threat.&nbsp; A 1hp monster in 4e is outclassed but can still do damage.&nbsp;&nbsp;1: This has been rebutted with &quot;A Paladin In Hell&quot;.2: &quot;One Shotting&quot; isn't just one attack.3: I guess you should excise 2e from canon.&nbsp; A 2e L9 fighter with weapon mastery, a +3 greatsword, and gauntlets of ogre power is one-shotting ogres roughly one attack in two as I demonstrated to Lanefan earlier.&nbsp; &nbsp;In 3e a basic ogre gets 29hp.&nbsp; A strength 22 greatsword fighter (again not unreasonable by level 9) with a +1 shocking flaming weapon (for +3 equivalent - not unreasonable if I remember my WBL) does 4d6+10 damage on a basic hit.&nbsp; Put in a three point power attack and the fighter is doing 4d6+16 damage per hit (I'm not even trying for optimisation here) and hitting with his first attack on a three without buffs.&nbsp; The 4e level 9 fighter is not just routinely one-shotting ogres, he's cleaving them.&nbsp; So I guess that 3.X is out as well.&nbsp; Come join us with 4e where your level 9 fighters don't one-shot ogres?&nbsp;And orcs are not minions.&nbsp; Orc <a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/drudge" target="_blank">drudges</a> are minions.&nbsp; The word drudge literally means &quot;A person who does tedious, menial, or unpleasant work&quot;; orc drudges in 3.X would be commoners.&nbsp; And outlevelled orcs take one hit - but then they do in 3.X as well.&nbsp; 4e is just honest about it.&nbsp; &quot;Battletested Orcs&quot; have hit points.&nbsp;So in both 2e and 3.X with very little optimisation a fighter can easily and regularly one-shot ogres at level 9 without buffs.&nbsp; This is apparently not a problem when one-shotting ogres at level 15 is for 4e fighters?&nbsp; Please explain what changed between the editions other than that 4e makes it explicit that you are expected to one-shot things you have a good chance of one-shotting?&nbsp;For once I agree.&nbsp; I can house rule this in one line - and do.&nbsp;&nbsp;You mean ability to remain damaged but recover your breath?&nbsp; I've said before that 4e would be much better received if they'd called hit points &quot;shock value&quot; and healing surges &quot;hit points&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;I disagree.&nbsp; 4e to me feels like an action movie not a superhero movie.&nbsp; Yes, some sit on the borderline like Batman.&nbsp; If I want Superman or Green Lantern I'm using a 3.X spellcaster.&nbsp;&nbsp;And 4e is on the action side.&nbsp; Exalted is on the supers side.&nbsp; Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are excellent 4e PCs.&nbsp; But if I want ASoIaF, I'm going to ignore D&amp;D entirely and reach for WFRP or even GURPS.&nbsp; Keep your hit points out of my gritty games.&nbsp;&nbsp;No.&nbsp;&nbsp;And remember the greatsword was doing 3d6 damage vs large foes...&nbsp;&nbsp;I didn't realise it was quite that bad.&nbsp;&nbsp;Which monster manuals are you using?&nbsp; And what sort of terrain and tactics?&nbsp; Because when I stick to level appropriate I scare the life out of my PCs.&nbsp; When I don't it gets worse.&nbsp; But then I don't use anything pre MM3.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5941833, member: 87792"] Because a 1hp monster in other editions isn't any sort of threat. A 1hp monster in 4e is outclassed but can still do damage. 1: This has been rebutted with "A Paladin In Hell". 2: "One Shotting" isn't just one attack. 3: I guess you should excise 2e from canon. A 2e L9 fighter with weapon mastery, a +3 greatsword, and gauntlets of ogre power is one-shotting ogres roughly one attack in two as I demonstrated to Lanefan earlier. In 3e a basic ogre gets 29hp. A strength 22 greatsword fighter (again not unreasonable by level 9) with a +1 shocking flaming weapon (for +3 equivalent - not unreasonable if I remember my WBL) does 4d6+10 damage on a basic hit. Put in a three point power attack and the fighter is doing 4d6+16 damage per hit (I'm not even trying for optimisation here) and hitting with his first attack on a three without buffs. The 4e level 9 fighter is not just routinely one-shotting ogres, he's [I]cleaving[/I] them. So I guess that 3.X is out as well. Come join us with 4e where your level 9 fighters [I]don't[/I] one-shot ogres? And orcs are not minions. Orc [I][URL="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/drudge"]drudges[/URL][/I] are minions. The word drudge literally means "A person who does tedious, menial, or unpleasant work"; orc drudges in 3.X would be commoners. And outlevelled orcs take one hit - but then they do in 3.X as well. 4e is just honest about it. "Battletested Orcs" have hit points. So in both 2e and 3.X with very little optimisation a fighter can easily and regularly one-shot ogres at level 9 without buffs. This is apparently not a problem when one-shotting ogres at level 15 is for 4e fighters? Please explain what changed between the editions other than that 4e makes it explicit that you are expected to one-shot things you have a good chance of one-shotting? For once I agree. I can house rule this in one line - and do. You mean ability to remain damaged but recover your breath? I've said before that 4e would be much better received if they'd called hit points "shock value" and healing surges "hit points". I disagree. 4e to me feels like an action movie not a superhero movie. Yes, some sit on the borderline like Batman. If I want Superman or Green Lantern I'm using a 3.X spellcaster. And 4e is on the action side. Exalted is on the supers side. Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are excellent 4e PCs. But if I want ASoIaF, I'm going to ignore D&D entirely and reach for WFRP or even GURPS. Keep your hit points out of my gritty games. No. And remember the greatsword was doing 3d6 damage vs large foes... I didn't realise it was quite that bad. Which monster manuals are you using? And what sort of terrain and tactics? Because when I stick to level appropriate I scare the life out of my PCs. When I don't it gets worse. But then I don't use anything pre MM3. [/QUOTE]

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