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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5605315" data-attributes="member: 54877">It wouldn't bother me if XP was formally separated from challenge altogether.  Or rather, it wouldn't bother me if leveling was so separated.  If you've done that, you don't need XP for leveling anymore, and thus might use it for something else--action points or some other mechanic not tied to leveling. The leveling would be tied to whatever made sense for the style of game you are running.  In more traditional style, get the treasure of the adventure, level.  In a more story telling style, simply participate in the story, you level--even if you pull a Cugel the Clever kind of outcome where you lose the treasure at the very end. In a more explicity operational style--or narrative style with a very different focus--finishing the adventure is what gives you the in-game elements that let you level--the favor of the local lord who provides training or whatever. Would actually be rather interesting in a 4E variant to have the raw power of leveling tied to one of those other things instead of XP, but have the acquisitiion of feats, powers, etc. be done via XP.</blockquote>