D&D Market Analysis (Adventure Levels)

[The Sigil]

Re: Thanks!

Is this really true? Perhaps. In any case it would certainly help if the adventures not only were marked with "suitable level" but also had a list of necessary/desirable high-level abilities.

The writers could also try to create encounters that can be solved in several ways. That would make the adventure suitable for a variety of PCs. The text could include sidebars with options for different types of adventuring parties.

Disclaimer: I am a freelance writer for TG (let me put that right out there now) but I am trying to answer this as a consumer, not as someone affiliated with TG.

A truly excellent question... my greatest hope in this regard would be something along the lines of what Thunderhead Games is using - their little boxes with suggestions for altering the adventure if the party has a lot of clerics/paladins or arcane spellcasters or fighter-types or trap-disarmers and so forth.

I really think that this is a nifty idea that allows adventures to be both generic (i.e., the writer has to write but one basic adventure) but also allows the adventure to be suitably "dressed" to the party's strengths and weaknesses (ostensibly, the DM will know the capabilities of his party and will have an easy time deciding which, if any, of the "odd-party" boxes to use).

I didn't come up with the idea of these boxes, but kudos to the one(s) who did... this is a great way to make adventures tailored to the strengths of the DMs party no matter which DM grabs a module.

--The Sigil

 

[Darian Damas]

I think Smetzger is right in that the authors of high-level adventures must have in mind what high-level characters are (/could be) capable of. Otherwise, there will be unpleasant surprises when the PCs suddenly spoils the whole adventure by doing something that "should have been impossible". So in a way it is necessary to "plug the holes".

However, I really recommend reading Monte Cook's "DMs only" article on Design Secrets: High-Level Adventures. I like his idea about "embracing" the high-level abilities, not "negating" them.

I might be wrong, but I think that some worries expressed earlier in this thread had to do with the opposite problem: Even high-level PCs cannot overcome all situations. The author might have assumed that the party has a specialist within a certain field, or that they possess a certain artifact etc.

This is where I want the optional solutions. And this is certainly not a high-level specific issue. It is a matter of not "rail-roading" the PCs. Nevertheless, high-level characters often find their way around most obstacles, just like Smetzger said. An insightful author should know what ways PCs could possibly use.

High levels raise interesting questions. Take divinations as an example. They can change things a lot if the PCs know how to use them. The questions are:

1. When the PCs are high-level, do you have to think of the use of divinations when you construct your adventure? (Certainly!)

2. Should you construct your high-level adventure so that the PCs must use divinations to succeed? (Probably not, there should be alternative ways)

3. Should you "plug all the holes" so that divinations wouldn't help at all? (No! That would be "negating".)

4. Should you construct your high-level adventure so that divinations would help in several cases (but not necessarily in all)? (Absolutely! This is "embracing".)

All in all, I hope we will see more published intermediate- and high-level (not epic-level ) adventures in the future.

/Darian Damas

 

[Darian Damas]

Re: Re: Thanks!

A truly excellent question... my greatest hope in this regard would be something along the lines of what Thunderhead Games is using - their little boxes with suggestions for altering the adventure if the party has a lot of clerics/paladins or arcane spellcasters or fighter-types or trap-disarmers and so forth.

Yes, the TG-boxes sound like a good thing to me. I had heard about them already so I can take no credit for the high level boxes.

/DD

 

[Psion]

Along similar lines is this

(this might not work if you don't have a yahoo groups account):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AskTheDM/surveys?id=430040

which indicates that less than 5% of campaigns run in the 20+ level range, and there is a pretty uniform tapering off after 10th level.

I think this only makes sense. I do think that there are less problems with high level games in 3e. However, campaigns often have a finite time limit and people are more comfortable at lower levels than high levels. It seems pretty logical that high level games would be uncommon.

That said, this is new territory for a lot of players, and I think that well done challenging high level adventures can be really helpful on instructing groups how to find good challenge at this level.

 

[der_kluge]

I've always wanted to write a high-level adventure. Maybe I will some day.

I can only speak for my group, but this last game we ran, I got a PC to the highest level (as a player or a DM, I think) I've ever gotten to, and that was 12th, starting at 3rd. Most games I've ever ran, unless we specifically started at a high level, never get too far beyond about 7-9th or so.

And we just semi-retired those characters.

But, I suppose one could argue that the reason that most people don't play high level games is that there aren't very many modules out there for them?

Chicken and egg argument, perhaps. I don't know.