D&D Math questions

[FrankTrollman]

Sorry, typo -- I meant War2, not War4. A multiclassed wizard/warrior is weaker than a single-classed wizard or warrior, but your system would make it more powerful.

My system? It's in the DMG.

And a Warrior 2 / Wizard 2 adds up to the same as a Warrior 4. The only time a multiclassed character is ever considered more powerful is a very small blip at 3rd level - which I think is an aberation of the discontinuity of the first level/second level disjunction.

The Warrior 2 / Wizard 8, however, adds up to a whole lot less than a Wizard 10, however. Scarcely more than half again as much in fact.

I don't understand how your are doing your math - but it is simple log notation. Level in specialty = the log base root 2 of the power of the character, with multiple specialties adding linearly, and level 1 being half as powerful as level two instead of root 2th as powerful.

That's right out of the DMG. And to the best of their ability, the Monster Manual's new "advancing a creature" rules attempt to follow that.

-Frank

 

[Plane Sailing]

For further additional information (taken from the SRD, it is also in the MM) it is interesting to note that WotC did follow up on the many points which were raised about the difference between multiclassing with "similar" classes and "dissimilar" classes - e.g the hill giant who arguably gets a bigger benefit from a level of Barbarian than from a level of wizard.

Associated Class Levels
Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1.

Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability.

Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage.

A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability.

Nonassociated Class Levels
If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated, and things get a little more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1.

Levels in NPC classes are always treated as nonassociated.

 

[CRGreathouse]

For further additional information (taken from the SRD, it is also in the MM) it is interesting to note that WotC did follow up on the many points which were raised about the difference between multiclassing with "similar" classes and "dissimilar" classes - e.g the hill giant who arguably gets a bigger benefit from a level of Barbarian than from a level of wizard.

I'm familiar with the associated class CR system; I've posted about its effects elsewhere on these boards. It doesn't work like Frank's system if (some would argue mis)applied to multiclassed characters.

Bbn10/Sor6

Frank's system: 11th-level character equivilent (1/8 from barbarian levels (6 behind), 1/32 from sorcerer levels (10 behind) = 5/32; 5/32 is roughly 5 ELs lower)
DMG (misaplication?): power 13th-level character equivilent (10 from barbarian levels, +6/2 from sorcerer levels)

 

[JDowling]

Well, I get lost with the Log numbers. Is there a simplier way to figure it out?

Also, which system (associated class, or the other math) would more accurately represent PC power being multiclassed? I'm thinking of coming up with some house rules to make multiclassing more viable.

If the mathy one requires me to use logs to figure it out (and isn't something I can plug into my fancy calculator) then I might try the associated class thing, or leave the whole system alone.

Beh, maybe i'll dig up an old math text if I still have them and see what they say about log functions.

EDIT: I guess I understand how to calculate logs, but I don't know how to set up the equation for this.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Well, I get lost with the Log numbers. Is there a simplier way to figure it out?

Someone could put it up in tabular form for you:

Level (or CR) - Effective Power Level:

1 - 1
2 - 2
3 - 2.83
4 - 4
5 - 5.66
6 - 8
7 - 11.31
8 - 16
9 - 22.63
10 - 32
11 - 45.25
12 - 64
13 - 90.51
14 - 128
15 - 181.02
16 - 256
17 - 362.04
18 - 512
19 - 724.08
20 - 1024

This can also be looked at as "how many first level characters is this character worth?".

Now, the idea behind the very weird numbers in the Monster Manual is that a creature actually does gain BAB from Wizard levels. In fact - the Hill Giant is gaining CR from the effective warrior level he gets every other Wizard level exclusively - and not gaining Wizard CR at all.

Be that as it may - I was originally talking baout this in terms of a Prestige Class in which the "spellcasting" and "combat" applications of the class were 100% different things. You don't get any BAB just because your PrC has coughed up a Caster Level - it's a separate quantity altogether.

-Frank

 

[JDowling]

Thanks much for the table, was able to use it to work out the %'s you'd posted earlier, should help a lot in my playing around. yay, all questions answered