D&D 5E D&D on CNN

[Mistwell]

If anything, I think your claim ("there's an article about a new/upcoming game, and it couldn't possibly be an advertisement paid for by the game's publisher") is more extraordinary than mine.

You've made an accusation of bribery - your accusation, if true, would be a violation of FTC rules.

It would also violate CNN's own policy, which is, "CNN.com has clear guidelines that distinguish advertising from editorial content, and any sponsored content on our site is clearly denoted as such."

Show me the evidence. It's your claim, the burden is on you. I didn't say "it couldn't possibly be an advertisement", in fact I didn't say or imply anything you put in quotes as if you were quoting me. I said show me the evidence to back up your claim.

If you have no evidence to back up your claim, just admit that.

 

[Mistwell]

I Tweeted Larry Frum about GX.Sigma's accusation.

[Edit: His response, "oh for the love of... *sigh* thanks for letting me know. any positive article MUST have been paid for it seems. disappointing."

 

[bogmad]

You've made an accusation of bribery. Show me the evidence. It's your claim, the burden is on you. I didn't say "it couldn't possibly be an advertisement", in fact I didn't say or imply anything you put in quotes as if you were quoting me. I said show me the evidence to back up your claim.

If you have no evidence to back up your claim, just admit that.

It's a large media company, one that makes it's money off advertising, and that undoubtedly has run some hasbro sponsored commercials at some point, or would like to in the future.

I'm not making the case that there's some deep illegal and shameful conspiracy we're dealing with that needs to see the light of day. I'm just saying there's no need for mock outrage or indignation towards someone if they point out there could be different intents or reasons for this story getting run and pushed to the top of the page.

I love that the story is getting noticed, but I'm not so naive to think that a marketing push hasn't helped get the new release some press from major news outlets.

I'm not arguing legal bribery on the part of CNN or anything worth a libel accusation for my false claims.
I'd say just accept what might not be a cynical dig, and what was intended as a joke.

 

[DMZ2112]

Excluding movies of course

Excluding movies. That wouldn't be a fair comparison, considering that Magic hasn't had one yet.

...Transformers will still /win/, mind you, once there's a Magic movie, I'm just saying that the comparison is unfair.

 

[Mistwell]

It's a large media company, one that makes it's money off advertising, and that undoubtedly has run some hasbro sponsored commercials at some point, or would like to in the future.

Show me how Larry Frum has an incentive to write a positive article about D&D because CNN may have otherwise elsewhere advertised a Hasbro product (something I'm not actually aware has actually happened but it's possible). Show me ANY influence over Larry Frum from such theoretical advertising.

I'm not making the case that there's some deep illegal and shameful conspiracy we're dealing with that needs to see the light of day. I'm just saying there's no need for mock outrage or indignation towards someone if they point out there could be different intents or reasons for this story getting run and pushed to the top of the page.

I don't know what made you think my being bothered by this is mock or outrage. It's definitely a real reaction from me, and while it's not outrage it is a bit of disgust at the ongoing constant negativity from some people that gets this low that any positive review now is accompanied by a claim that it must be the result of money being paid for the review in some fashion.

I love that the story is getting noticed, but I'm not so naive to think that a marketing push hasn't helped get the new release some press from major news outlets.

Saying "the marketing push helped get this news noticed by someone who works for CNN" is different from saying "[The positive review] probably means Hasbro is giving them money". You understand the huge gulf of a difference between those two claims, right? Larry Frum sure understood the difference. I would not have reacted as directly, and with a bit of disgust, if that had been his claim. But that was not his claim, and I am reacting to what he said, and not what you apparently wish he had said.

I'd say just accept what might not be a cynical dig, and what was intended as a joke.

You'd have to ask him what he intended it as, but it sure didn't look like a joke to me. It looked like standard cynical anonymous negativity on the Internet.

 

[GX.Sigma]

You've made an accusation of bribery. Show me the evidence. It's your claim, the burden is on you. I didn't say "it couldn't possibly be an advertisement", in fact I didn't say or imply anything you put in quotes as if you were quoting me. I said show me the evidence to back up your claim.

If you have no evidence to back up your claim, just admit that.

I have no evidence to back up my claim. Thanks for making it personal, though. I'm so glad you felt the need to immediately and publicly tell the author that I was personally accusing him of committing a crime (note the word "probably" in my original post, thus making it neither a claim nor an accusation, since I'm not asserting that it's true) before I even had a chance to defend/explain/dismiss my own initial gut reaction.

 

[bogmad]

Show me how Larry Frum has an incentive to write a positive article about D&D because CNN may have otherwise elsewhere advertised a Hasbro product (something I'm not actually aware has actually happened but it's possible). Show me ANY influence over Larry Frum from such theoretical advertising.



I don't know what made you think my being bothered by this is mock or outrage. It's definitely a real reaction from me, and while it's not outrage it is a bit of disgust at the ongoing constant negativity from some people that gets this low that any positive review now is accompanied by a claim that it must be the result of money being paid for the review in some fashion.



Saying "the marketing push helped get this news noticed by someone who works for CNN" is different from saying "[The positive review] probably means Hasbro is giving them money". You understand the huge gulf of a difference between those two claims, right? Larry Frum sure understood the difference. I would not have reacted as directly, and with a bit of disgust, if that had been his claim. But that was not his claim, and I am reacting to what he said, and not what you apparently wish he had said.



You'd have to ask him what he intended it as, but it sure didn't look like a joke to me. It looked like standard cynical anonymous negativity on the Internet.

Look, I'm not going to defame Larry Frum if that's what you want me to do. I'm sure he loves the game, and I love that he wrote that article.

And somewhere down the editorial chain, I'm guessing someone at CNN likes stories that mention products. Since you asked for sources earlier, here's a podcast I listened to that helped me form my opinion, but that's all it is: an opinion. [note: off topic from a D&D discussion]

Whether it's disgust or outrage on your part is not a distinction I'm interested in. I apologize for the "mock" part as I don't think you're being insincere anywhere. I just think you could relax a bit. As to what I think GX.Sigma's intent was with a single line on a message board , that's not my argument so I'm just going to bow out of the discussion now.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

The wildest claim in this thread is that CNN is a news agency.

 

[Mistwell]

I have no evidence to back up my claim. Thanks for making it personal, though.

I didn't make it personal. I have only focused on what you said, and not on you. I even said I don't know what your intent was, I just know what it looks like to me. And I gave you an opportunity to clarify - and you came back at me aggressively. I'm sorry it felt personal to you, that was not my intention though I can see why you'd feel that way now. I have no beef with you personally, I enjoy your posts, and I find you to be an intelligent poster who knows the game well.

I'm so glad you felt the need to immediately and publicly tell the author that I was personally accusing him of committing a crime (note the word "probably" in my original post, thus making it neither a claim nor an accusation, since I'm not asserting that it's true) before I even had a chance to defend/explain/dismiss my own initial gut reaction.

I tried to give you an opportunity to clarify by asking you if you had any evidence to support your claim (I even used the words "accused" and "claim" and you didn't seem to dispute that characterization). You responded, "If anything, I think your claim ("there's an article about a new/upcoming game, and it couldn't possibly be an advertisement paid for by the game's publisher") is more extraordinary than mine."

When you claimed my reaction was more extraordinary than your own, that's the point where I let Mr. Frum know (I didn't say you accused him of committing a crime) so he could deny it, or agree with you and show me that my thinking on it was wrong.

Again, I am sorry you feel like I've put you in an uncomfortable position. If you'd explained that your statement was just a gut reaction when I asked if you had any evidence, I would not have Tweeted him. I wish I had given you another opportunity to respond though before I had Tweeted him, so sorry about that.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I didn't make it personal. I have only focused on what you said, and not on you. I even said I don't know what your intent was, I just know what it looks like to me. And I gave you an opportunity to clarify - and you came back at me aggressively. I'm sorry it felt personal to you, that was not my intention though I can see why you'd feel that way now. I have no beef with you personally, I enjoy your posts, and I find you to be an intelligent poster who knows the game well.



I tried to give you an opportunity to clarify by asking you if you had any evidence to support your claim (I even used the words "accused" and "claim" and you didn't seem to dispute that characterization). You responded, "If anything, I think your claim ("there's an article about a new/upcoming game, and it couldn't possibly be an advertisement paid for by the game's publisher") is more extraordinary than mine."

When you claimed my reaction was more extraordinary than your own, that's the point where I let Mr. Frum know (I didn't say you accused him of committing a crime) so he could deny it, or agree with you and show me that my thinking on it was wrong.

Again, I am sorry you feel like I've put you in an uncomfortable position. If you'd explained that your statement was just a gut reaction when I asked if you had any evidence, I would not have Tweeted him. I wish I had given you another opportunity to respond though before I had Tweeted him, so sorry about that.

Dude, I'm sorry too. I shouldn't have been so hostile. I'm glad this ended like this.