D&D 5E D&D Peoples/Species change ideas

[Bagpuss]

Racial modifiers should only be for the player characters or important NPCs.

Weird I would be more tempted to go the opposite way. Fixed racial modifiers for typical average NPCs, and flexible ones for PCs or key NPCs who are by definition "exceptional" characters.

An entire race should never automatically get some plus or minus. That goes down the road of racist comparisons.

You understand race in D&D is not the same thing as what people use to describe "race" in the real world. Races in D&D are completely different species. Are you telling me the average field mouse is as strong as the average elephant?

The average person in a human town or in an orc town or an elf town should always default to having the same average abilities, which in 5E is 10-11. If a member of one of these races has a stat or stats different from the average, there should be a story or explanation for it.

Yes one species has significantly more muscle mass than the other. One species brain developed differently than another's, etc.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Changing the way races/species work mechanically doesn't change solve anything about the way the game conveys outdated stereotypes, or it only does in the most hypocritical way. Whether you remove racial modificators or not, there are still Orcs out there who are, on average, stronger than humans, there are still Elves out there who are, on average, more agile and dextrous than humans. In other words, stereotypes are still deeply ingrained in the game's fabric.

If we're serious about getting rid of them, we have to remove them from the Monster Manual as well (and it would probably be a good idea to get rid of the "Monster" epithet while we're at it). All humanoid races should be made equal, and there should be no difference in their average abilities. Orcs shouldn't be any stronger than humans or Elves or Dwarves. And if you want to fight strong Orcs, you still have the option of modifying their abilities so that you're fighting a group of Orcs who are stronger than the average humanoid.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Changing the way races/species work mechanically doesn't change solve anything about the way the game conveys outdated stereotypes, or it only does in the most hypocritical way. Whether you remove racial modificators or not, there are still Orcs out there who are, on average, stronger than humans, there are still Elves out there who are, on average, more agile and dextrous than humans. In other words, stereotypes are still deeply ingrained in the game's fabric.

If we're serious about getting rid of them, we have to remove them from the Monster Manual as well (and it would probably be a good idea to get rid of the "Monster" epithet while we're at it). All humanoid races should be made equal, and there should be no difference in their average abilities. Orcs shouldn't be any stronger than humans or Elves or Dwarves. And if you want to fight strong Orcs, you still have the option of modifying their abilities so that you're fighting a group of Orcs who are stronger than the average humanoid.

This indeed is a logical conclusion if one accepts the premise that differences in capability between fictional species reinforces racist stereotypes regardless of how they are described or justified. This however, I think, is an absurd position. Go poll people on the street whether they think it is racist to say that Wookiees tend to be stronger than Ewoks. I have a strong suspicion that the answer will be a resounding 'no', or more likely a resounding 'WTF.'

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Weird I would be more tempted to go the opposite way. Fixed racial modifiers for typical average NPCs, and flexible ones for PCs or key NPCs who are by definition "exceptional" characters.



You understand race in D&D is not the same thing as what people use to describe "race" in the real world. Races in D&D are completely different species. Are you telling me the average field mouse is as strong as the average elephant?



Yes one species has significantly more muscle mass than the other. One species brain developed differently than another's, etc.

No, and I am not going to treat your strawman as strong as a real reason either.

 

[Bagpuss]

No, and I am not going to treat your strawman as strong as a real reason either.

Which strawman? I'll admit the mouse and the elephant are an extreme example, but what of a halfling and and goliath? Surely it is pretty clear that the average a halfing is going to be weaker than the average goliath? Hence my reason for keeping attribute adjustments for average "NPC" characters, but allow floating ones for PCs who are the exceptional types that are perhaps at one extreme end of the bell curve.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Racial modifiers should only be for the player characters or important NPCs. An entire race should never automatically get some plus or minus. That goes down the road of racist comparisons. The average person in a human town or in an orc town or an elf town should always default to having the same average abilities, which in 5E is 10-11. If a member of one of these races has a stat or stats different from the average, there should be a story or explanation for it. Everyone in the local army has one more point in Str or Dex because they trained. Anyone below average in Con maybe was sickly as a child. The individuals born with special stats are the ones who become PCs or major NPCs and should not be default for an entire race/culture/people/etc.

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Goliath are stronger than humans. A human and a Goliath with the same job, background, diet, and habits, will not have the same ability to hit things hard. Full stop. It would be completely absurd for them to have the same strength score. That is why they have ability score modifiers.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I would like to see more colorful mechanics. Here's one I use in my home game:

Darkvision (Dwarf & Gnome): You can see in the dark, even total darkness, out to a range of 60'. Your vision, however, is black and white and the clarity grainy at best. Reading is impossible. The exceptions are gems and precious metals, which you always see in full color and brilliance.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Goliath are stronger than humans. A human and a Goliath with the same job, background, diet, and habits, will not have the same ability to hit things hard. Full stop. It would be completely absurd for them to have the same strength score. That is why they have ability score modifiers.

As long as 5E classifies all PC races as Medium creature, then no, they should all be average. If you want your Goliaths that are working on the loading docks to be stronger to show that, then give them a boost in strength. But the average Goliath walking down the street, who is an unstatted NPC, should be just as average in stats as a human or dwarf or halfling.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

As long as 5E classifies all PC races as Medium creature, then no, they should all be average. If you want your Goliaths that are working on the loading docks to be stronger to show that, then give them a boost in strength. But the average Goliath walking down the street, who is an unstatted NPC, should be just as average in stats as a human or dwarf or halfling.

Have you ever done much contact martial arts? Wrestling, judo, kendo, boxing?

 

[ccs]

As long as 5E classifies all PC races as Medium creature, then no, they should all be average. If you want your Goliaths that are working on the loading docks to be stronger to show that, then give them a boost in strength. But the average Goliath walking down the street, who is an unstatted NPC, should be just as average in stats as a human or dwarf or halfling.

Anyone think we should mention to him that this is in-fact NOT the case?