D&D 5E D&D Peoples/Species change ideas

[MostlyHarmless42]

Tying ability bonuses to race OR culture is problematic. Both mental abilities and physical abilities, all six of them. IRL, racist stereotypes apply proficiency and/or deficiency in both physical and mental attributes, and keeping this trope in D&D furthers the problematic systemic racism in our society.

So, what to do? You guys should check out a few products on the DM's Guild and DriveThruRPG.com. First, Grazilaxx's Guide to Ancestry. Graz's isn't my favorite reimagining of race in D&D, but it does give lots of ideas of what to do with those pesky racial ability bonuses. Graz's gives detailed and concrete options including: 1) shifting bonuses to class, 2) shifting bonuses to background, and 3) simply adding more points to the point-buy option. One option not in the book that I like . . . shifting bonuses away from race to culture, but making them suggestions rather than pre-determined. For example, if you choose the elf race/ancestry and the high elf culture, your suggested ability bonuses are +2 Dex and +1 Intelligence . . . but you can put your +2 and +1 anywhere you like, or even put a +1 on three ability scores.

One thing I think needs changing with race in D&D, in addition to decoupling ability bonuses, is making a distinction between inherited traits (genetically and/or magically) and learned traits (cultural, social, familial). Grazilaxx's Guide doesn't, IMO, do a very good job of this, but Arcanist Press's book Ancestry & Culture (and it's two expansions) do a great job, and the book is killing it on DTRPG right now.

I don't play Pathfinder, but I've been very curious about how Paizo treats race in the new edition of the game. I didn't quite grok it when reading through the new Core Rulebook, but I've recently picked up the Lost Omens Character Guide (through a current Humble Bundle offer) and I'm liking what they are doing. Pathfinder 2E, like other books including Ancestry & Culture, replaces race with ancestry. Subrace is replaced with heritage . . . . but heritage in PF2 doesn't relate to culture or subcultures, just different traits (learned or inherited) that ANY member of the ancestry could have. The words ancestry and heritage don't really have distinct meanings, which is what initially confused me, and PF2 uses heritage as a subset of ancestry. For example, any Elf, regardless of the culture or ethnicity they were raised with, can take the Ancient Elf or Desert Elf heritage. In contrast, Ancestry & Culture replaces subrace with, well, culture. Elf is an ancestry, High Elf is a culture. While I really like the system in Ancestry & Culture, I'm also really liking how Pathfinder 2E treats culture/ethnicity . . . in PF2 culture/ethnicity HAS NO MECHANICAL IMPACT AT ALL!!! Ethnicities for each ancestry/race are described, and often have suggested heritages, but have no pre-determined traits at all. I like that.

I think you and I must have read a different game then, because last I checked each "race" still had preexisting bonuses and penalties associated with each ancestry, heritage, and background choices. Yes, they let you typically pick between two options and gave each person a floating bonus or two, but still largely had the same issue that's been brought up in this thread: implications that different cultures had differences in physical or cognitive abilities. Additionally certain ancestry choices largely matter in terms of leveling characters up as certain options are locked to them and not all are equal even remotely. I don't fault things entirely from a balance perspective, but were I seeking to criticize the game from a cultural equality lense it could be misconstrued still. Additionally, their default way of ability generation would royally anger any in this thread who are strong proponents of rolling for stats. I strongly disagree with them and have similar negative opinions of rolling to the poster a bit back who felt that way towards point buy, but they are not inherently wrong for feeling this way.

I still maintain the best thing to do, as I have in most of the ten(?)+ now threads on the same topic is to completely detach ability scores from races/ethnicities/whatever you want to call them. Give each play four +1 bonuses they can assign to whatever score they wish and set a cap of 18 in any stat at level 1. If feats are allowed, let them trade two of these bonuses for a feat. Keep any ancestry/racial bonuses to passives like fey ancestry and darkvision, or racial magic, and give any proficiencies to culture or background.

Want to be a human raised by elves? Take elven weapon training and whatever the human ancestry package gets (maybe a skill proficiency or tool or language so humans can actually be as "diverse" and "different" from one another as the damned book actually says they are? Or a feat?)

Want to be a dwarf raised by wolves? Take the dwarf kit (poison resistance and darkvision) and I don't know animal handling and keen senses?

Want to be a dex fighter/barbarian/paladin, strength rogue/ranger, or basically any hybrid class that would be hard to quantify which is the "best stat" for? Good news! We didn't make the boneheaded move of tying ability increases to class! Aren't you glad?

 

[CubicsRube]

I could be down for floating +2 and +1 bonuses. I prefer it to be linked to class. Maybe +2 to class, +1 to background? But I like the +2 to class because it helps protect against characters that don't work as intended and also to guide players in building better characters. But, if attacks/save DCs became a function of class, then it wouldn't be a problem and people could make their smart fighters or slacker wizards.

That'd be my vote. Adds sone flavour to why a person is the way they are. A barbarian is tough from their training and exposure to the wild, but they were also a tribal sage, so they're a little more intelligent for it.

That is far more interesting to me than because they were a dragonborn, or a Gnome, or whatever.

 

[CubicsRube]

But why link them? If they are already floating, and you are going to play a barbarian, for example, won't you just put them in STR/CON if you want to. I could certainly see a "quick-build" suggestion like for other features in a class, though, since you sort of are implying that.

I think it helps approachability and avoiding trap builds for new players. Might be obvious if you're familiar with the system that your barbarian needs high CON, but might not be at first glance to a newbie.

 

[CubicsRube]

I've put up a house rule doc that splits up biological features the core races and other items to race-neutral cultures. Ability scores are assigned to class in this document.

So a half-orc who grew up in an Eyrie and became a bard would have relentless endurance and darkvision, proficiency in perception and training in swords and bows, a +2 to Cha and a +1 to INT. Wheres a dwarf that grew up in a barbarian tribe and became a ranger would have poision resilience, darkvision, savage critial, proficiency in intimidation +2 to DEX and +1 to WIS.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Heh... I don't even know why people keep saying we need to give floating bonuses to all the ancestries AT ALL. A "floating +2 and +1"? What's the point? If you want higher scores for your characters... just give more points to players during Point Buy. That's all you need to do. Then they can get that DEX score as higher as they need. Or on the off-chance you're a table that rolls for your stats... if you need higher stats for the PCs than just roll more or different dice (like roll 5d6 keep 3.)

If we aren't giving out specific bonuses for specific reasons (whether it's ancestry, class, background, or whatever)... there's absolutely no point in just giving out bonus points that the player can just put in anything.

 

[CubicsRube]

Heh... I don't even know why people keep saying we need to give floating bonuses to all the ancestries AT ALL. A "floating +2 and +1"? What's the point? If you want higher scores for your characters... just give more points to players during Point Buy. That's all you need to do. Then they can get that DEX score as higher as they need. Or on the off-chance you're a table that rolls for your stats... if you need higher stats for the PCs than just roll more or different dice (like roll 5d6 keep 3.)

If we aren't giving out specific bonuses for specific reasons (whether it's ancestry, class, background, or whatever)... there's absolutely no point in just giving out bonus points that the player can just put in anything.

Yep. I'm eaither for just plain higher point buy or bo uses from class and background.

I personally like the idea that someone is stronger because they used to be a blacksmith, or wiser because they used to be an acolyte, and I feel that has more flavour. But otherwise I'd scrap it and increase the array/point buy methods.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

Well friends, you see, if some races have Str bonuses, then they're optimal for Strength classes. Same for the other, non-con ability scores. Removing ability score bonuses as a function of race would diversify the game, make for other class/race combos to be viable.

No, it wouldn't. It would just move optimization somewhere else. As long as races are anything but a cosmetic choice, you'll have the best race for the job.

Even if the only thing you're giving to each race is, let's say, advantage in a skill check once per long rest, the one getting advantage on Athletics is probably getting the warrior boost.

Personally, I support either going full cosmetic or giving races the full package they always had. A mountain dwarf that gets to choose which stats to boost is more viable as a wizard than a high elf.

So where do the ability score bonuses go? They go to class. Your class gives you +2 to your primary stat, or a choice between a few (fighter can choose Str or Dex). Your subclass then gives you +1 to a secondary stat. Move subclass choices to first level. These aren't given out via multiclassing.

This is even worse. I want the game to move in the other direction. I want incentives to play charismatic and intelligent fighters, not the opposite.

 

[Catolias]

It looks too fiddly and complex IMO for D&D and doesn't feel like it would fit well. For 5E, I think something simpler and easier to follow would work better, but that's just my opinion. Maybe in practice it isn't as bad as it appears at first glance. shrug

I thought it was fiddle at first too. The attribute point allocation system is different which is one of the trickier things to get around.It’s greater customisation option for PC is what makes it enticing for me. Still yet to play, though

 

[GreenTengu]

Okay, if I were to redo the races I think I might do something like this. A few of these

There are a number of other rules attached to races because they are too fiddly. Weapon proficiencies and armor proficiencies are useless to all classes that are not casters, changes to movement speed never seem to come up in game (and it is odd that movement is affected by race and not athletics skill),same with rules that interact with encumbrance and rules that affect when one is able to hide (seems like the stealth rules were overcomplicated just to slap those extra hiding rules onto Elves and Halflings). I am also going to ignore Small Size as it should be both an advantage and a disadvantage and rules as written-- it is not.

Also, I am not too happy that a lot of these races are granting out-and-out resistance to one thing or another that a PC of any other race couldn't reasonably obtain. So it might be good if those could be switched out so that the races don't grant anything that can't be obtained with a few levels in the right class.

Human
Any 1 Feat
Any 1 Skill
Languages: Common and 1 Other
Tool Profiency or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)

Aasimar
1 Cantrip**
Resistance to 1 from Cold, Lighting, or Radiant
Regain hit points equal to Profiency Bonus when spending a hit die during short rest
Any 1 Skill
Languages: Common, Celestial and 1 Other
Tool Proficiency or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)

Dragonborn
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Any 1)
Draconic Heritage - Choose a color and associated element Black (Acid), Blue (Lightning), Brass (Fire), Bronze (Lightning), Copper (Acid), Gold (Fire), Green (Poison), Red (Fire), Silver (Cold), or White (Cold)
Dragon Breath - Works like Cone of Cold Cantrip, but damage type become associated element
Resistance to associated element
1 Skills from: Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Religion, or Stealth
Languages: Common and Draconic
Tool Proficiency

Dwarf
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorerer (Mountain or Underdark)
+1 Hit Point per level
Advantage on Save vs. Poison & Poison Resistance
1 Skills from: Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidaton, Investigation, Medicine or Religion
Languages: Common and Dwarven
Tool Proficiency

Elf
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Forets or Underdark)
1 Cantrip (Spellcasting attribute can be any)**
Advantage on Save vs. Charm & Immunity to Sleep
1 Skills from: Animal Handling, Arcana, Athletics, Medicine, Nature, Stealth or Survival
Languages: Common, Elven
Additional Language or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)

Gnome
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Forests or Underdark)
1 Cantrip**
Advantage on Save vs. Illusion
1 Skills from: Animal Handling, Arcana, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Performance or Stealth
Languages: Common and Gnomish
Tinkerer's Set Proficiency or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)

Goblin
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Any 1)
May Disenge or Hide as Bonus Action (If you are a Thief, gain Expertise on 1 additional skill at 2nd level)
Advantage on Save vs. Restrained
1 Skills from: Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Deception, Nature, Sleight of Hand, Stealth or Survival
Languages: Common and Goblinish
Tool Proficiency or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)

Halflings
Natural Explorer (Grasslands)
Lucky (reroll 1s)
Advantage on Save vs. Fear
1 Skills from: Acrobatics, Investigation, Medicine, Perception, Performance, Sleight of Hand or Stealth
Languages: Common, Halfling and 1 Other
Tool Proficiency

Hobgoblin
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Coastal, Mountain or Underdark)
1 Bardic Inspiration or 1 Battlemaster Maneuever and Superioriety Die of D6 (Or 1 Extra Bardic Inspiration or 1 Extra Maneuever and Superioriety Die if respective class)
Advantage on Save vs. Stunned
1 Skills from: Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Perception, or Persuasion
Languages: Common and Goblinish
Tool Proficiency

Kobold
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Mountain, Swamp or Underdark)
May Disenge or Hide as Bonus Action (If you are a Thief, gain Expertise on 1 additional skill at 2nd level)
Advantage on Saves vs. Traps
Resistance to 1 from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning or Poison
Languages: Common and Draconic
Tool Proficiency

Orc
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Arctic, Mountain or Underdark)
Rage 1/Long Rest as Barbarian (or 1 extra if a Barbarian) or Relentless Endurance
Advantage on Save vs. Disease
1 Skills from: Athletics, Animal Handling, Intimidation, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, or Survival
Languages: Common and Orcish
Tool Proficiency or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)

Tiefling
Dark Vision*
1 Cantrip**
Resistance to 1 from Cold, Fire, or Necrotic
Any 1 Skill
Languages: Common, Infernal and 1 Other
Tool Proficiency or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)


Heritage Feats
Half-Dwarf (Human Only, 1st Level Only)
Dark Vision*
+1 Hit Point per level
Advantage on Save vs. Poison & Poison Resistance
Bonus Language: Dwarven

Half-Elf (Human Only, 1st Level Only)
Dark Vision
1 Cantrip**
Advantage on Save vs. Charm & Immunity to Sleep
Bonus Language: Elven

Half-Hobgoblin (Human Only, 1st Level Only)
Dark Vision*
1 Bardic Inspiration or 1 Battlemaster Maneuever and Superioriety Die of D6 (Or 1 Extra Bardic Inspiration or 1 Extra Maneuever and Superioriety Die if that class)
Advantage on Save vs. Stunned
Bonus Language: Goblinish

Half-Orc (Human Only, 1st Level Only)
Dark Vision*
Rage 1/Long Rest as Barbarian (or 1 extra if a Barbarian) or Relentless Endurance
Advantage on Save vs. Disease
Bonus Language: Orcish

* Races that start with Dark Vision can exchange it for Superior Dark Vision and Low Light Vision if they are an underdark variant.
** Races that start with a cantrip can exchange it for a 1st level spell 1/day at 3rd level and a 2nd level spell 1/day at 5th level


I also attempted some additional races beyond those, but I have way less confidence that these ones are at all properly balanced. In fact, when I hit the Tabaxi I just gave up because I couldn't really figure out a good way to do that one at all. But maybe now that I created a template, it would be easier to reimagine a lot of other races.

Bugbear
Dark Vision*
Natural Explorer (Forests)
+1 Hit Point per Level
Sneak Attack +1d6
Grapple as if Large Sized
1 Skills from: Athletics, Investgitation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Stealth or Survival
Languages: Common and Goblinish

Firbolg
Natural Explorer (Forests)
+1 HP per level
1 Cantrip**
Grapple as if Large Sized
1 Skills from: Athletics, Animal Handling, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception or Stealth
Languages: Common and Fey
Tool Proficiency or Animal Companion (CR 0 or 1/8)

Genasi
Choose Air/Lightning, Fire, Earth/Acid or Water/Cold
Resistance to Associated Element
Elemental Touch - Works like Chill Touch Cantrip, but damage type becomes associated element
May create a 5' by 5' area of associated element at the cost of 1 Hit Die
Any 1 Skill
Languages: Common and Elemental
Special Ability
Air: Advantage to Athletics when Jumping
Fire: Advantage to Save vs. Dazzle
Earth: Advantage to Saves vs. Forced Movement
Water: Waterbreathing

Goliath
Natural Explorer (Mountains)
+1 Hit Point per level
Grapple as if Large Sized
Add Proficiency bonus to AC when unarmored (if you are Barbarian, Monk or other class that grants similar ability, get Expertise on 1 skill)
1 Skills from: Athletics, History, Intimidation, Investgitation, Nature, Perception, or Survival
Languages: Common and Giant
Tool Proficiency

Lizardfolk
Natural Explorer (Swamp)
Add Proficiency bonus to AC when unarmored (if you are Barbarian, Monk or other class that grants similar ability, get Expertise on 1 skill)
Unarmed Attacks are 1d6 (or 1 step higher if Monk or other class that increases unarmed attack)
1 Skills from: Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidate, Nature, Perception, Stealth, or Survival
Waterbreathing
Languages: Common and Draconic
Tool Proficiency

 

[DND_Reborn]

Lots of good stuff, @GreenTengu , but man I would remove darkvision from over half the races, it is much too common IMO.