D&D Realities: a meta-cosmology to unite all editions

[Dungeonosophy]

The game rules specify how various aspects of the world, e.g. magic, function. If what happens in a novel or an edition-change alters the effect of something, then there are natural questions that would arise among the people living in the game world as to why basic facts are now different. Hence the need to justify the changes in-game (or just have it be a retcon, which I find to be the more unpleasant option, though it can still be made to work).

Exactly. Mystara is my favorite published setting. It was switched from Classic D&D to AD&D2e without employing any in-story event. In one year, the Poor Wizard's Almanac used CD&D stats, and in the next year, it had 2e stats.

But, the CD&D cosmology was very different from the 2e cosmology. References to Mystara's place in the Great Wheel Cosmlogy started appearing...but CD&D Mystara definitely had a different cosmology...so what happened?

I remind the readers again that I'm not advocating that WotC employ more any more in-story Spellplague events. I'm not opposed to all those who are chiming in about how they hate in-story justifications of rules changes.

Hear me out:
3e recognized that each World has its own Cosmology. This was an advancement from the 2e policy where every setting was shoehorned into the single Great Wheel Cosmology. The fact that each 3e Cosmology could be reached through the Plane of Shadow was a "meta-cosmology", or a "trans-cosmology".

What I'm advocating is that WotC designers explicitly acknowledge that each rules iteration is its own Reality. This concept is a "meta- or trans-cosmology". This concept comes from an obscure Dragon magazine article written by the TSR-era Classic D&D brand manager. A link to the full article is included in the OP.

If this concept is dusted off and widely recognized, then the 5e designers won't feel pressure (whether it's a "need" or a "want") to justify the switch to 5e with any in-story events. Instead, the 4e Reality of Forgotten Realms will simply no longer be supported, but will still exist "off screen". And the 5e Reality of Forgotten Realms will simply come on stage. This is similar to the "elseworlds" of Star Wars or the recently re-booted Star Trek movie.

Like the other Realities listed in the OP, the Fifth Edition Reality existed all the way from the beginning of time. The ToT and Spellplague still happened in the 5e Reality of (Abeir)-Toril, but in the 5e Reality, Forgotten Realms always was viewed through the "lense" of the 5e rules.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Also, all the various continuity discrepancies of each setting will be justified as alternate Timelines. This way, all conflicting events from any TSR/WotC product did happen in some Timeline or another. The 5e designers have already hinted that this concept will be adopted for 5e.

Pairing this with the concept of Realities will mean that all these Timelines happened in all the Realities (rules universes).

 

[Lwaxy]

Elseworlds? Alternate universes I think you mean. Why would anyone need to feel pressure about this at all? All they need is to give the GMs of the new edition a few pointers as to how they could make the change if the GMs really feel the need to change the worlds around. Other than that, my 2nd, 3rd edition, PF, 1e and new edition games can all be in the same timeline.

 

[TwinBahamut]

But, the CD&D cosmology was very different from the 2e cosmology. References to Mystara's place in the Great Wheel Cosmlogy started appearing...but CD&D Mystara definitely had a different cosmology...so what happened?

...why should something have happened? Nothing happened except exactly what you said: two different books gave inconsistent descriptions of a fictional setting. This inconsistency has no bearing on the setting of Mystara in an abstract sense, because Mystara doesn't even exist in that sense.

3e recognized that each World has its own Cosmology. This was an advancement from the 2e policy where every setting was shoehorned into the single Great Wheel Cosmology. The fact that each 3e Cosmology could be reached through the Plane of Shadow was a "meta-cosmology", or a "trans-cosmology".

I'll repeat what I said earlier: the idea of a "meta-cosmology" is itself a mistake on the level of a giant Realms Shattering Event. It is a completely mistaken view of how settings actually operate, and it itself leads to all kinds of problems.

If this concept is dusted off and widely recognized, then the 5e designers won't feel pressure (whether it's a "need" or a "want") to justify the switch to 5e with any in-story events. Instead, the 4e Reality of Forgotten Realms will simply no longer be supported, but will still exist "off screen". And the 5e Reality of Forgotten Realms will simply come on stage. This is similar to the "elseworlds" of Star Wars or the recently re-booted Star Trek movie.

Settings already exist as "elseworlds" from each other. In fact, every single individual campaign set in a particular setting like the Realms is a totally separate continuity and universe from any other campaign set in the Realms. This is the natural way to look at the game. Forcing some kind of in-game justification for this natural metagame concept is completely unnecessary for this purpose. The idea that there is some abstract "true reality" of the Realms that needs a Reality sub-system in order to keep these continuities separate is a misconception on your part.

It is this very line of thinking that you are using, treating settings like the Realms as if they actually existed in some form, that led to the problems you are trying to solve. All it takes to solve those problems is to stop thinking of them in those terms. WotC was quite successful in doing that with the 3E to 4E transition for the Eberron and Dark Sun settings, so I don't quite understand why you think there is still a problem that needs to be solved.

Like the other Realities listed in the OP, the Fifth Edition Reality existed all the way from the beginning of time. The ToT and Spellplague still happened in the 5e Reality of (Abeir)-Toril, but in the 5e Reality, Forgotten Realms always was viewed through the "lense" of the 5e rules.

I'll repeat that you are looking at this the wrong way. It is unnecessary to use this view of having the rules exist within the game world to solve the problems you want to solve. We don't need to look through different "lenses" (a terrible analogy for what actually happens), we just need the keep the game and the metagame separate, the way they are supposed to be.

Indeed, the very fact that events like the Time of Troubles mixed the game (setting) and the metagame (rules) is part of why they are so disliked. Continuing that mix will not solve that aspect of the problem.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Elseworlds? Alternate universes I think you mean.

Right, I mean "Infinities" timelines.

Why would anyone need to feel pressure about this at all? All they need is to give the GMs of the new edition a few pointers as to how they could make the change if the GMs really feel the need to change the worlds around. Other than that, my 2nd, 3rd edition, PF, 1e and new edition games can all be in the same timeline.

It's simply a fact that TSR and WotC designers have gone to great lengths to write in-story transitions. I'm describing what has actually occurred, and offer a concept to transcend those transitions.

In the Realities concept, as applied to a homebrew setting that has no continuity snags, there is still only one Timeline. What you describe for your setting is what I call a "Transitive Reality" in the OP, where a single Timeline of a World transitions through different Realilties (rules systems).

The cosmological framework are likely going to change from 4e to 5e. Simply not worrying about it is another approach.

 

[Lwaxy]

I still hope they leave the settings alone this time. I could kick someone somewhere for messing this up still. Oh maybe we are lucky and they make a new setting and ignore the rest.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

This inconsistency has no bearing on the setting of Mystara in an abstract sense, because Mystara doesn't even exist in that sense.

This kind of statement is unfruitful because it could be used in any discussion about games or fictional worlds.

 

[TwinBahamut]

This kind of statement is unfruitful because it could be used in any discussion about games or fictional worlds.

How so? In fact, that comment I made only has the truth I intended for it in the context of D&D itself. D&D settings are less "real" than even something like the continuity of a fictional world like Tolkien's Middle Earth or the Star Trek Universe. They are not a world so much as a suggestion for a world. Because of the way D&D is played, with hundreds of individual DMs each creating their own version of a setting with the freedom to adjust, create, or discard whatever they please, the actual fictional world doesn't even exist except on the level of an individual campaign. As far as the actual game of D&D is concerned, there is no such thing as a genuine Forgotten Realms canonical timeline, only a suggestion for a timeline.

Also, the fact that the concept is true for any discussion of games or fictional worlds doesn't mean it is "unfruitful," it just highlights the oddity of your approach.

Also, it would be nice if you didn't pull one sentence out of context, dismiss it on shallow grounds, and ignore the rest of what I tried to say. It makes it hard to call this a "discussion" if you do things like that.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Okay, a few things here.

While Die, Vecna, Die! did turn the 2E unified cosmology into its 3E counterpart (which, in addition to altering the Great Wheel somewhat, split various campaigns into having their own cosmologies), there was also The Apocalypse Stone, which was a 2E->3E adventure for home-brew campaign worlds.

The whole "Chaos War" changed Dragonlance from 2E to the SAGA system, not 1E.

Thanks Alzrius! I'll add those changes to the OP and my website.