D&D Settings but not D&D

[VariSami]

This is actually a brief summary of a discussion I had last night. I happened to mention that I've been converting Planescape to 3.5 (essentially just the factions as affiliations - and I know it's been done before). He immediately asked: "But why D&D?"

I was baffled, really. Well, it's a D&D setting, right? AD&D to be precise, as he pointed out. I've never played AD&D except as video games and he pointed out that it was very different from 3.5, which I'm very familiar with. He commented on the fact that 3.5 rules would either make the game "tactical figure chess" or "something else with bad rules for it". I know that the rules are inflated towards combat but in my opinion there is a lot more to them and I don't completely agree with his judgment. He's ran 3.5 a lot, mind you, so it's not just stereotypes.

The way I see this is that D&D offers a lot of material that is true to Planescape. The other guy pointed out that Planechase is all about the factions and the cosmology, neither of which is specific to D&D according to him. I disagree with the latter, though: it's *the* D&D cosmology. It's a world in which anything D&D can come together in surprising combinations. Why would I disregard all that specific material simply because it requires book-keeping?

I can see where he's coming from. Yes, one could always opt for other systems such as GURPS or Shadows of Yesterday, even when playing D&D-inspired games. I agree that sometimes the rules baggage of 3.5 does consume from the role-playing experience. But when all that material is readily at hand in detail, instead of just vague ideas which one would need to adjust, I find the idea kind of absurd.

What's your take on the matter? Would Forgotten Realms, Eberron or Planescape (or any other setting for that matter) be more enjoyable with another system or is D&D an important part of them? I know I'll still go with 3.5 for that campaign but try to avoid too much tactical figure chess.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I say it depends upon the group playing the game.

I've run D&D-style games- including PCs with classes drawn from all eras of D&D (that were available at the time)- in HERO, and everyone had a good time. But in those campaigns, everyone was familiar with HERO. (And in one case, they were already familiar with my supers 1900 game in HERO, based on Space:1889's setting and other sources.)

Were I to try that with my current group, they probably wouldn't even bother designing PCs.

 

[S'mon]

Well, Planescape seems a very (pre-4e) D&D setting to me, I'd definitely use 1e, 2e or 3e for it. OTOH Eberron looks more like a Savage Worlds setting in its assumptions (pulpy adventure, medium-high power level, tech-magic) than like any sort of D&D. Forgotten Realms is generic fantasy and would be fine with eg GURPs or anything except the grittiest low-power systems. Birthright would work with Runequest/BRP or (better) Pendragon! Dark Sun again would fit great with Savage Worlds, it's not a D&D-feeling setting.

 

[Viking Bastard]

One of my favorite campaigns ever was a Planescape campaign run in Mage: The Ascension. Fit like a glove.

Before 3e came out, we had played D&D-esque fantasy in GURPS for years. We used 2e books as supplements.

 

[Yora]

AD&D is so rules light that the settings barely have anything that directly connects to rules that are specific to D&D.

You have your humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes, and your fighters, thieves, clerics, and wizards, all of which can be done with other games as well.
If you would look at any scenario from a D&D setting, the only way to tell it's D&D is by unique monsters like beholders and ilithids.

 

[Desdichado]

AD&D is so rules light that the settings barely have anything that directly connects to rules that are specific to D&D.

But many of the settings have built-in assumptions that are heavily informed by the D&D milieu, if you will.

For settings like Eberron, on the other hand, I've always felt like the D&D specific elements felt kind of clumsily added on, somehow. I agree that it's always felt like a good Savage Worlds setting; if I were to run it as Savage Worlds, I might actually go ahead and remove some of the D&D specific elements--maybe some of the races, or something, I dunno.

I probably wouldn't consider Planescape with anything other than D&D, given how deeply rooted it is in D&D cosmological assumptions, and D&D specific elements. But I don't know why converting it to 3.5 would be particularly difficult. Heck, most of it was already done anyway, although it's spread throughout multiple books.

 

[Yora]

Planescape certainly is the one setting that most clearly could only have been created based on cosmology and creatures of D&D. It could not have been made without D&D at is base.

But alignment, cosmology, and creatures are not part of the rules and mechanics. They coexist with the rules system, but neither depends on the other.
If you would read a Planescape novel or watch a Planescape movie, the only way to detect D&D rules underlying the action would be if somebody says "I have to rest to prepare different spells". And that is not something that is important to the setting. If characters just know their spells and can cast them without limitation, it would not conflict with any other aspects of the world.

Despite my huge love for Planescape I never play it (mostly because I don't play so often and it's usually with beginners who are better served with something simpler), but if I would, I think I would prefer the Dragon Age RPG.

 

[amerigoV]

What's your take on the matter? Would Forgotten Realms, Eberron or Planescape (or any other setting for that matter) be more enjoyable with another system or is D&D an important part of them? I know I'll still go with 3.5 for that campaign but try to avoid too much tactical figure chess.

I cannot speak to Planescape (limited experience) but Savage Worlds rocks Eberron. Eberron is a mix of pulp and noir. SW can really bring out the pulp side of that equation (I believe Mr Baker even commented that 4e did Eberron better than 3.5 in that regard).

Ravenloft is probably better outside of 3.5/4e. Horror gets diminished the more you use a battlemat (once you start throwing in 5' steps, the mood gets lost), and those versions of D&D work best with a Battlemat (I know some people say you can live without it under 3/4, but at that point one might as well use a rule set that does not rely on it).

I did Expedition to Castle Ravenloft set in Eberron with some Eberron-y step up using Savage Worlds that I was much more satisfied with than when I ran Eberron using 3.5. I ran just about all the published Eberron modules using 3.5 and by the end I was ready for something different.

FR probably works best in 3.5, but I really did not like FR until I ran 3.5 so I am probably biased there. I am sure the 2e'rs would think differently.

 

[Umbran]

AD&D is so rules light that the settings barely have anything that directly connects to rules that are specific to D&D.

I have to go with Hobo on this one. The various races, and assumed magics, are already defined detailed throughout most of the editions, simplifying the conversion task.

I personally find it easier to say "I can just replace a 2e Githyanki with a 3.5 Githyanki" and maybe tweak a bit, than to fully convert the race from one system to another. Especially when you consider it in bulk - converting *every* race (and, in Planscape, there are many races) is a chore and a half.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Some friends of mine once expressed the view that D&D isn't a good fit for Dark Sun. They saw D&D as being gonzo and cinematic, while Dark Sun is grim n' gritty.

Eberron would probably be better served by a 1920s pulp or Indiana Jones type of system such as Spirit of the Century. Ironically, here I think D&D isn't cinematic enough, it's too rooted in battlegrid gamism and/or the prodding with ten foot poles style of play. Although Eberron is replete with trap and monster filled ruins, it doesn't want to approach them in at all the same kind of way that D&D does. The action needs to be much more fast and furious, and much less Tomb of Horrors-y.