D&D vs. Modern

[Victim]

Will take a look at that classically modern thing. The site says it will be updated in a few days.

I think I would agree about the MDT being a campaign trait. It makes sense to me to adjust it to the foes, since that is what the enemies have been designed to attack.

Does it seem that the high ac of Modern characters offsets the low saves, or is one more of a vulnerability/advantage than the other?
Agree with Mustrum_Ridcully. The test characters I statted up gave the impression of being highly capable individuals, yet also lacking in the armour/shields department.

Reason for the curiosity? Inspired by the Doomd20 thread. Low saving throws sounds like a big problem with all the special abilities demons get.

Modern characters will probably be spending action points on major saves, so the difference isn't as much as the raw numbers. However, other issues are equipment based (most modern characters probably won't have any decent armor), and dependent on the adversaries. A succubus really messed up our GT party, even with characters firing cold iron bullets. If you take out the high wis dedicated hero with iron will, the average will save was like +2 at best. Not good against DC 22 Will saves.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I guess outside of magic there relatively balanced. I'm not a huge fan of modern classes though so its hard to say. One problem I had was I was trying to make a gun guy and the logical route seemed to be fast hero/and the gun based prestige class I ended up with strong hero/marital artist with all my free feats being devoted to guns. End result I'm a better gun guy than the guy who went fast hero since my BaB is so much higher now. Zippy he has a couple tirck shot class abilities I'll never get and a couple more gun feats, but I'm a better shot I shoot just as often, and I can put my fist through people heads while he'll get the snot beat out of him by a 5 year old. I'm sure some of it is I min/max more but the few feats I wont get because of my class abilities don't seem like a big thing compared to a loss of bab. Guns really aren't any more powerful than HtH in this game so the loss of Bab to a mid range BaB on a fighting class seems weak.

 

[Aesmael]

GT = Grim Tales? Does that use the same classes as Modern?
Victim, am I understanding you correctly if I say that with access to D&D equipment Modern characters would have little or no problem outside their own use of magic, with the possible qualifier of 'provided they spend the feats to wear armour'?

Wert the saving throws, I think I see what you mean. I'm running a number crunching test case to see how feasible it is, but the characters I selected might give anomolous results - two Smart heroes and a Dedicated in the group. But still not quite as high as high Will D&D class, where the formula is Level/2 + 2.

That was also very interesting Shard O'Glase, but no specific comments spring to mind.

 

[Victim]

GT = Grim Tales? Does that use the same classes as Modern?
Victim, am I understanding you correctly if I say that with access to D&D equipment Modern characters would have little or no problem outside their own use of magic, with the possible qualifier of 'provided they spend the feats to wear armour'?

Wert the saving throws, I think I see what you mean. I'm running a number crunching test case to see how feasible it is, but the characters I selected might give anomolous results - two Smart heroes and a Dedicated in the group. But still not quite as high as high Will D&D class, where the formula is Level/2 + 2.

That was also very interesting Shard O'Glase, but no specific comments spring to mind.

Yeah, Grim Tales. GT classes are pretty much the same as d20 Modern's. They start with a bit more proficiencies and the skill lists work differently. There are no advanced classes though, but most of their abilities have been moved into talents. Also, I think GT lets you do some different stuff with AP.

Assuming equal access to magic doodads, modern characters spending the feats for armor would an AC advantage. Also, characters could easily use armor with no check penalty without proficiency - DnD mithral let's you get pretty good AC this way.

In terms of offense, a strong hero can pick up weapon specialization from easy access to the soldier class about a level behind the fighter. He can also pick Melee Smash for more damage, so he can come up ahead in terms of close combat. Attack bonus would be the same. Aside from the need to buy armor proficiencies, he'd do okay.

I'm not sure the mental stat classes would do as well though.

Shard: the fast style gunfighter generally ends up with a much better defense bonus than the strong one.

 

[Aesmael]

Thanks for the advice Victim. Also, I just had a look at the Bullet Points article detailing conversions, which suggested highly magical creatures should receive a +2 to +3 adjustment to challenge rating in these situations. I am going to see how that turns out.