D&d We Have Became Too Nice

[TiQuinn]

Try Forge of Fury

Forge of Fury, which IIRC is for character levels 3 to 5, throws some pretty hefty monsters at the players. Heck, it even says in the DM's text that the encounters are meant to be avoided or dealt with in a non-combatitive way since a direct confrontation is likely to get several PC's dead! And this was just the second module in the Adventure path!

 

[Psion]

Take a look at the good ol' DMG under "status quo encounters." Some encounters aren't meant to be beat, and are NOT keyed to character level. I'll have to arrange for my players to trip across something that they can't necessarily beat soon. Gotta keep them on their toes!

 

[Umbran]

And weren't people talking about how much of a meat grinder "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" was?

The CR system in no way limits game lethality. The sytem says that a party of 4 characters should, on average, use up something like a 20% of their resources on an encounter of CR equal to their average level. Note, depending on the situation, that can mean that the encounter nearly kills one character, leaving the rest unscathed.

The CR system also suggests that encounters with a critter with a CR more than 8 above the party's average level are basically suicide.

Nowhere does it give a hard rule on where in that range your encounters should fall. You wanna throw lots of tough stuff at them, go ahead. What in the 3E rules is stoping you?

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Two words: Rappen Athuk.

One of the freeport trilogy has a trap that is way too much for the level involved, imo.

The privateer press trilogy is filled with moments where a stupid and impulsive party will get slaughtered. Hey, it happened to my players.

Of course, they had to do it the first of such encounters- making the rest of the trilogy useless for them.

FD

 

[Psion]

The CR system in no way limits game lethality.

Indeed. The recommended encounter frequencies suggest that 10% of your encounters (IIRC) have an EL of 4 or more greater than the average party levels. That means 10% of the encounters you have you should run from.

If you aren't following that guideline, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

 

[Umbran]

The recommended encounter frequencies suggest that 10% of your encounters (IIRC) have an EL of 4 or more greater than the average party levels.

Almost - DMG, Pg 102
15% should be "Very difficult: one PC might very well die" (EL is 1 to 4 higher than the average party level)
5% overpowering - The PCs should run, or they will probably lose (EL is 5 or more over the party level).

 

[Pseudonym]

That damn bridge

I vividly recall a near TPK when 3 of the 5 2nd level PCs fell off the bridge in the beginning of The Forge of Fury. That "encounter" didn't even have an ECL. We never even made it to the orcs on the other side.

 

[MerakSpielman]

It's up to the players to keep their characters alive. There are options other than fighting, and IMC these options produce just as many XP.
Last week my players were breaking into the main temple of Vecna in the land. They found an old, disused entrance under a landslide designed to seal it off. Some of the defenses were still there, including a trap that released 2 bodaks (death gaze fort DC 15 to stay alive) into the room with them. Even the players didn't recognize them. The rogue and monk "fell down" during the fight. After the bodaks were dead, the cleric said, "ok, I go check out the monk and rogue." I reply, "OK. They are dead."
The looks on their faces was priceless when they realized that it was only by making that mysterious Fort save every turn that they were still alive.
They went and got the rogue and monk ressed.

Moral: never try to break into the temple of an evil god unless you expect to die. The clerics do not appreciate invaders, and will not cut corners on their attempts to kill.

 

[tburdett]

If you want to bring back that 1E feel just add 25% - 50% to the CR's that you throw at the players. Just be prepared for the total party kills.

 

[Black Omega]

I don't think the system has be come to nice. It's whatever the GM makes of it. I have periods of heavy combat. And periods like recently where the group is mostly in politics and roleplay. I considered alternate xp, but after talking with the players, they want a chance to play high level at the normal rate. The highest a group of ours has gotten is 9th. There's been one character death so far, a crit that maxed for 60 points. And a couple of close calls. But that's fine, I'm running Rokugan, where spells like Raise Dead are considered evil.

Nothing wrong with the occasional overpowered encounter though. A good trap or the PC's ending up over their heads. It keeps them on their toes.