D&D with checkpoints?!

[DEFCON 1]

Let's also not forget another important point here...

Just because everyone is knocked unconscious (a Total Party Knockout as you put it) doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is dead.

If everyone is dropped to 0 HP... it does not mean that the monsters necessarily go around and coup de grace every PC right then and there. You (as DM) can see them all suffer a Total Party Knockout... but then have them wake up several hours later in chains in a cell somewhere if you want. Or tied up on a spit over a fire being built. Or strapped to an altar ready to be sacrificed. Or even right there where they all fell, waking up later to discover the monsters they were fighting are all dead around them for some reason. Or any kind of thing you can think of.

A TPK is an excuse for the DM to throw in new plot ideas forward in time if having everyone dead is not to their liking. You don't need them to reappear at a "checkpoint" backwards in time only to ask them to replay the story back up to where they had the TPK. Move the story forward. You and your players will have more fun with it I think.

 

[Goonalan]

Two things-

1) Exactly whast Defcon said above, the PCs are great and all but surely the story is the big thing. If they really don't want to roll up new guys then find a way- they're captured etc. Some others rescue them, the guardian angel- whatever.

2) What's so wrong with dying? I get when a player really likes their character and that, but like buying pets for kids it teaches them the fact that stuff dies. As a DM killing a few PCs every now and then is no biggie (and don't think me cruel, or that I would set out to do such a thing on purpose). Point of fact I'd try to save the PC. or at least give them a half-a-chance to get out, but when the dice speak, or they do something just plain dumb...

The heroes are the ones that survive, they're heroes because they survived.

Run your guys through a DCC RPG scenario, tell them they'll need 5 PCs each (each of which can be rolled up in less than five minutes)- don't bother with names, just give 'em numbers.

Sorry and all that but I think death is a big chunk of it.

Certainly without death (in a fighty fantasy style rpg) then I wouldn't play it, reward without risk... nah! That don't sound that exciting to me.

Different folks different strokes.

 

[howandwhy99]

One of my players expressed the idea of having "safe areas" where the party could rest and, if they suffer a Total Party Knockout, are returned to...basically making Checkpoints.

Does that take anything away from the fun of risk or is that a good safety net in case the dice "hiccup"?

(one of my players says his dice "Hiccup" whenever he gets a run of four or five bad rolls in a row)

Build it into the game world. Everyone's a Clone and they can Upload & Download copies of their "Corporeality & Sentience XX#X#^TM date/&/time" from Magitech points.

 

[Quickleaf]

One of my players expressed the idea of having "safe areas" where the party could rest and, if they suffer a Total Party Knockout, are returned to...basically making Checkpoints.

Does that take anything away from the fun of risk or is that a good safety net in case the dice "hiccup"?

(one of my players says his dice "Hiccup" whenever he gets a run of four or five bad rolls in a row)

Instead of doing this, I would explicitly remove the possibility of PC death from the game unless a player chooses a dramatic death scene (in which case death becomes possible for their PC who maybe gains a cool power up).

Old schoolers would balk at this, I know. The basic idea here is: "Threaten the quest, not the PCs." It requires the DM to come up with a variety of failure options that are meaningfully negative yet still keep the game going. I've run games like this and they were a lot of fun and I found there was more heroic risk-taking on the part of the players.

Also, the maxim that taking a PC's loot is worse than death for many players still holds true in a "threaten the quest, not the PCs" play style. Loss of items, hirelings, domain management resources, popular support, stopping the bad guy, all of these are possible consequences for failure. PC death, however, is not.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

Your reasoning behind not wanting to play is?

Again, there is no right or wrong way to play DnD.

An adventure where the party could revert back to a "saved point" might be interesting.

As for an entire game like that:
1. I think such a mechanic is too Gamist, I tend to like my games tend to enjoy simulationist games more.

2. I enjoy games where every outcome is valid. The Epic failures are just as fun as the Epic Successes (and the Failures normally create better stories). I wouldn't want the players saying "well, we flubbed this mission, let's restart it from the last saved point." The flubbed mission is a valid outcome and can lead to interesting stories as well.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Again, there is no right or wrong way to play DnD.

An adventure where the party could revert back to a "saved point" might be interesting.

As for an entire game like that:
1. I think such a mechanic is too Gamist, I tend to like my games tend to enjoy simulationist games more.

2. I enjoy games where every outcome is valid. The Epic failures are just as fun as the Epic Successes (and the Failures normally create better stories). I wouldn't want the players saying "well, we flubbed this mission, let's restart it from the last saved point." The flubbed mission is a valid outcome and can lead to interesting stories as well.

Don't take this the wrong way but that is more helpful than your first reply.

Thanks everyone it is nice to see so many varied suggestions that bridge the gap that is apparent between my play-style and atleast this player maybe more of the group, I will talk to them and offer up the options raised here, pointing out that reverting time is unlikely to be an acceptable option but others could easily be created (I especially like cursing them to suffer ENDLESS deaths ) and see what we come up with.

 

[Libramarian]

One of my players expressed the idea of having "safe areas" where the party could rest and, if they suffer a Total Party Knockout, are returned to...basically making Checkpoints.

Does that take anything away from the fun of risk or is that a good safety net in case the dice "hiccup"?

(one of my players says his dice "Hiccup" whenever he gets a run of four or five bad rolls in a row)

I think this is a little lacking in imagination for D&D. Try getting the players to think about this issue strategically a little bit. Can they come up with some sort of plan for this? What should happen if a TPK looks imminent? How soon should someone retreat so that they can try to come back later and resurrect the other party members? Can they work out some kind of deal with NPCs to search for their bodies and resurrect them in the case of a TPK? etc.

 

[GX.Sigma]

If what your players want is to do awesome things and not worry about getting a bad roll, you might be interested in Fate Points. This comes from the Fate System, but can be easily adapted to any edition of D&D.

Basically, each player has a pool of Fate Points. They can spend their points to re-roll a die roll, or to determine something about the story or environment ("I want to spend a fate point so that the dragon can only see movement."). But it goes both ways: the GM can offer players fate points for doing suboptimal things ("Your character is superstitious and doesn't like magic. I'll give you two Fate Points if you don't use the Vorpal Sword."). There's a whole system for bargaining and raising Fate Points.

The system also involves each character having several aspects that can be tagged for Fate Points: For example, a character might have an aspect called "Ladies man." He might spend Fate Points to have a more favorable interaction with a female NPC, and the GM might offer him Fate Points for getting distracted by a sexy lady in the middle of a battle.

Anyway. Just an idea.

 

[Aaron L]

As others have said, there is no badwrong way to play D&D, and if your group is having fun with it, then you're playing it right.

However, I would never want to play in a game that had "restore points." To me, the most fun part of any RPG is simulating what it would be like to actually be in the environment of the game world, crafting a character that would fit into the history and continuity of that created world, and playing that character in such a way that he comes to life in that setting... and in the process of interacting with the setting, brings the setting to life as well.

Also, in order for me to have fun in a game there needs to be some sort of dramatic tension, and in order for their to be any dramatic tension their needs to be at least the possibility of failure. If there is no possibility of failure, if you get to simply retry every risky venture you attempt over and over again until you get it right, then there isn't really any need for dice and you may as well just have every player sit around describing what they want their characters to accomplish, and then describe the successful outcome to the other players.

Having "restore points" in a D&D campaign would only serve to forcibly remove my mind from the game setting, destroy any chance at my maintaining suspension of disbelief, and remind me, nay, SCREAM at me: "this is just a trivial game, there are no real challenges, and anything you do is totally inconsequential because if you fail you simply get a do-over!"

But if it makes for more fun for your group, then go for it, I guess. I just would never ever want to play that way.

There would have to be a very unusual, in game reason why such a thing is happening for it to be acceptable to me. Some kind of extremely powerful magical effect "rewinding time" to a certain point, or something like that. And even then I would only be able to accept it as a limited effect in a certain location.


It would just be way too mechanistic for me. I want to be able to immerse myself in the world of my character, and something like this would only serve to rip me right put of any immersion I'd been able to create for myself; every time it happened it would forcibly remind me "This Is Just A Game!" And while I'm playing D&D I want to be able to forget that I'm just playing a game as much as is possible.

 

[Timmoth]

Because the game sounds dull, sorry for answering for someone else.

I'm a newbie to D&D only been playing/DMing for 33 years and my truth is we started with Monty Haul dungeons at the age of 11- rooms full of gold and magic items and half-a-dozen red dragons which we killed, or tamed, or polymorphed in to buxom wenches.

Fast forward 33 years and my players have to fight for their lives more often than not, and for almost no reward- save story, the plot and their characters.

And they die.

And because death is mostly permanent they get better, or else try things differently, they learn lessons.

If players can respawn why make encounters more difficult, why not as a DM change things as the encounters go bad... the cavalry arrives, or else the Dark Lord remembers he has an appointment at the dentist. But make it story...

And I get that sometimes the dice go bad for you but that's the game, it's a game of chance- no matter how certain you are your PC is going to win through then the - '1' comes up, or worse still the much feared '1' followed by '1'- I've seen a 12th level Paladin end his days with those two rolls, and we still talk about it to this day (it was in 1993). Or how certain you are that you're all doomed, then- '20', and in the old days with the crits '20' followed '00'- did I tell you about the 3rd Level Illusionist (Hireling) that saved the entire party by killing an Ancient Red Dragon with a plus 1 magical dagger straight between the eyes.

Random is great, because anything- anything can happen.

Remove death then why not remove the dice... that'd be easier, save you having to keep respawning, get the players to tell you what they rolled.

Obviously do your thing, and fair play to you... but make it story rather than a room that says 'safe'.

Good read. Can you tell me more or point me to where I can learn about the old days of pre 2e? Crits 20/00 sounds like a RTS rule and I know early D&D evolved into a war game. On the subject of RTS this thread might be a product of the lack of D&D videogames. Next needs Baldur's Gate 3.