D20 Fallout Tactics conversion question

[Breakdaddy]

I am working on a conversion of the old PC game Fallout/Fallout Tactics using Grim Tales and D20 Modern. So far its mainly plug n' play, as Grim Tales is very setting-friandly for exactly this game archetype. I have a question about the shotgun-scatter rules in GT though, so hopefully someone knows/can answer my query.The GT book indicates that in the second and third range increments that two or three squares (respectively) can be targeted in addition to the first range increment. It further states that these targets must all be in a perpendicular line to the shooter. The question here is: Does this mean that only a 5' wide line from the shooter can be used to target things? Or is there some spread diagram I am missing that would widen this to a more realistic level?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I am working on a conversion of the old PC game Fallout/Fallout Tactics using Grim Tales and D20 Modern. So far its mainly plug n' play, as Grim Tales is very setting-friandly for exactly this game archetype.

Thanks! I've actually run a Fallout game myself using Grim Tales. Ran it as a one-off for a Boston Game Day. The basic plot was to uncover the sinister forces mutilating the local brahmin herds-- but despite some fine roleplaying all around the table from Sulik, Lenny, Vic, and others, the game quickly devolved to deadly gunfights.

I'll be happy to provide you with my notes and some awesome character sheets I made for the occasion.

I have a question about the shotgun-scatter rules in GT though, so hopefully someone knows/can answer my query.The GT book indicates that in the second and third range increments that two or three squares (respectively) can be targeted in addition to the first range increment. It further states that these targets must all be in a perpendicular line to the shooter. The question here is: Does this mean that only a 5' wide line from the shooter can be used to target things? Or is there some spread diagram I am missing that would widen this to a more realistic level?

I'm in Hong Kong at the moment and without my Grim Tales rulebook, so I'll answer you as best as I can off the top of my head.

In the first range increment, the shotgun targets a single opponent with an area of effect equal to a 5x5 square. If the opponent is fully within the area of effect, he does not get to add dodge or Dex bonuses to AC.

In the second range increment, you target two 5x5 squares (or an area 5x10). The long side of this area has to be perpendicular to the shooter-- think of it as the terminus end of a cone. Make one attack roll and apply the result against any targets struck by the area of effect. Again, if they are fully within the target area, they don't get to add dodge or Dex bonuses to AC.

(It's important to note that the shotgun is not, strictly speaking, a cone effect, as targets between the shooter and the target will provide cover and may be hit instead.)

In this 5x10 area, you could hit two medium sized opponents standing side by side.

In the third range increment, the target area is 5x15... (Three medium targets standing shoulder to shoulder.)

In the fourth range increment (should your shotgun have effect to this point) it's 5x20, and so on.

Hope that answers your question!

Wulf

 

[Breakdaddy]

Thanks, Wulf! I would indeed be very interested in those Fallout notes and the character sheet you have! Thanks much!

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Thanks, Wulf! I would indeed be very interested in those Fallout notes and the character sheet you have! Thanks much!

I tried to attach the character sheets here... file sizes were just a smidge too big, sorry.

I'll have to FTP them when I get home!

Wulf

 

[WaterRabbit]

In the first range increment, the shotgun targets a single opponent with an area of effect equal to a 5x5 square. If the opponent is fully within the area of effect, he does not get to add dodge or Dex bonuses to AC.

In the second range increment, you target two 5x5 squares (or an area 5x10). The long side of this area has to be perpendicular to the shooter-- think of it as the terminus end of a cone. Make one attack roll and apply the result against any targets struck by the area of effect. Again, if they are fully within the target area, they don't get to add dodge or Dex bonuses to AC.

(It's important to note that the shotgun is not, strictly speaking, a cone effect, as targets between the shooter and the target will provide cover and may be hit instead.)

In this 5x10 area, you could hit two medium sized opponents standing side by side.

In the third range increment, the target area is 5x15... (Three medium targets standing shoulder to shoulder.)

In the fourth range increment (should your shotgun have effect to this point) it's 5x20, and so on.

Hope that answers your question!

Wulf

This seems a little generous to me. I am not an expert here by any means, but I believe that the spread of a shotgun is more like 1” / yard. If you are going to affect two 5’x5’ squares I would think that you need at least a 5’ spread (or 60”).

At 1” / yard that means you get a 60” spread at 60 yards or 180 feet. The range increment of shotguns in d20 modern is listed at either 30’ or 40’. For a 30’ range shotgun you don’t get a 5’ spread until the 6th range increment; for a 40’ range shotgun you get the 5’ spread until the 5th increment.

To affect a 5’x15’ area I would think that you would need at least a 10’ spread. A 10’ spread would not happen until 120 yards or 360 feet. You could only get that with a shotgun that has a 40’ range increment, and then only in the 9th increment.

With spread like these I would think that you should reduce the damage by half for a 5’x10’ area or by one third for a 5’x15’ area.

Also, for Fallout remember that Perception is added to the range of weapons according to the formula:

Combined Range (in meters) = (2 * PE)-1 + weapon range

And for every meter greater than the combined range subtract 3% from the attack roll. Shotguns in Fallout have a base range of 7-15 meters, depending upon the gun. For the Winchester Combat Shotgun, the base range is 22 meters; for the H&K CWS the base range is 30 meters; and for the Pancor “Jackhammer” the base range is 35 meters.

Breakdaddy, I assume you have access to the Fallout Pen and Paper rules ? They sum up the mechanics of the three computer games very well. The rules for burst and double shot weapons are considerably different than d20 and I think they did a better job of representing them.

Interestingly enough, they used the d20 formula for gaining experience long before d20 came out. I have often thought that the designers of d20 were influenced by many features of Fallout.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Breakdaddy, I assume you have access to the Fallout Pen and Paper rules ? They sum up the mechanics of the three computer games very well. The rules for burst and double shot weapons are considerably different than d20 and I think they did a better job of representing them.

Interestingly enough, they used the d20 formula for gaining experience long before d20 came out. I have often thought that the designers of d20 were influenced by many features of Fallout.

Unfortunately, I do not have access to these rules. I only have access to the three Fallout PC games. Also, on a side note, the Shotgun rules in Grim Tales assume that ALL shotguns have a range increment of 20 and a damage of multiple d4's, such that a 12 guage shotgun does 5d4 in the first increment and 1d4 in the 5th (max range), which changes the dynamics of the rules a bit. Your input is appreciated.

 

[WaterRabbit]

Unfortunately, I do not have access to these rules. I only have access to the three Fallout PC games. Also, on a side note, the Shotgun rules in Grim Tales assume that ALL shotguns have a range increment of 20 and a damage of multiple d4's, such that a 12 guage shotgun does 5d4 in the first increment and 1d4 in the 5th (max range), which changes the dynamics of the rules a bit. Your input is appreciated.

I haven't had a chance to look over Grim Tales yet, so I don't know how much change has been made. But with what you have posted that would give shoguns an enormous spread. Hopefully, that rule is only for shotguns using birdshot with a fully open choke.

If you want, I can send you the PnP rules for Fallout. They are 2.5 MB zipped up in PDF form plus there is a small errata file in RTF form.

 

[Breakdaddy]

I haven't had a chance to look over Grim Tales yet, so I don't know how much change has been made. But with what you have posted that would give shoguns an enormous spread. Hopefully, that rule is only for shotguns using birdshot with a fully open choke.

If you want, I can send you the PnP rules for Fallout. They are 2.5 MB zipped up in PDF form plus there is a small errata file in RTF form.

That would be helpful. Please send them to breakdaddy at uams dot edu and I will get them from there. Thanks!