d20 Future: Mutants as a Separate Species

[Machiavelli]

Okay, so I'm joining a d20: Apocalypse campaign, and I'm actually considering playing a mutant despite the horrible, horrible penalties imposed by a +1 LA. Somehow, no matter what I do with those 8 MP, I look at the character and think of how much better it could be if it only were one level higher.

Are the 8 MP actually worth all the trouble of having a lower BAB, less HP, lower save bonuses, and less feats/abilities? It doesn't really seem like it. At all. The thought is very depressing, because I love the various mutation options. Some may be far too hokey for the campaign my DM is planning to run (no magic, and nothing too far out on the believability scale), but a few just add SOOO much flavor to the character!

I would think the drawback of the social shunning that mutants recieve, along with the loss of the human bonus feat and bonus skill points, would be enough to balance them versus humans. Perhaps less than 8 MP would work to that effect (5 sounds about right), but the loss of an entire level of character development on top of the aforementioned drawbacks? That's HARSH.

 

[Aussiegamer]

I'm trying, in some small fashion, to replicate the handling of mutants in Alternity, where they generally had slightly more benefits than drawbacks, but didn't gain any of the normal bonuses for being Human.

Why not just adapt it since you like the idea, I have to some extent for Nexus.

One fo the problems with just strapping on the LA to the normal race is that you are not looking at the creatures that basically are mutants already. Look at the troll or sea elf or several other humaniod types.

Even using mutations to change a human to say dwarf is an interesting lesson in what amount of MP's it takes to in the end have a +0LA creature. (darkvision, stablity, poison resistance, increased ability, [drawback decreased ability], [loss of +1 skill point and feat], to name most of them).

The feat for me is a key as really you are exchanging the free feat for a mutation feat. So its not really lost but used for something already.

In the end you will, I think, unbalance the new race compared to the existing races.

I am pretty much looking at having a system of building "alien" races from a base idea you are starting to look at so everything is balanced.

 

[DarkKestral]

On the WotC forum, a lot of d20Future players have basically done that.. it appears a flat 8 MP but no other racial is essentially 'even' with most of the other LA+0 races, (which is probably why it's equal to +1 LA) and roughly equal to humans in ability. 5 MP gives you a feat, and 1 MP gives you 5 skillpoints or so... so you can figure that at 8-9 MP, you've replicated the human. You might want to knock it down a bit, or decide on a stock series of mutations to allow to create your racial choices.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

so you can figure that at 8-9 MP, you've replicated the human. You might want to knock it down a bit, or decide on a stock series of mutations to allow to create your racial choices.

That's kind of what was done with the Franks. (I like them, but think the Praetorian is too uber for LA +0. *Ahem* ) Anyway, I don't know if there's a mutation that would let you boost ability scores, but that would be cool (and expensive).

 

[DarkKestral]

That's kind of what was done with the Franks. (I like them, but think the Praetorian is too uber for LA +0. *Ahem* ) Anyway, I don't know if there's a mutation that would let you boost ability scores, but that would be cool (and expensive).

I believe its a +4 per 2 to an ability score... or thereabouts. I figure it should really be about +4-+5, and maybe get larger the larger the ability boost. So you can't take a racial -6 to Cha and get a +6 to strength for 'free'. So I'd probably put it as +(4 +(1 per 4 points of boosted score)) so a +4 requires a -9 total set of defects to balance at MP 0 total, and a +8 would require 19. this way, it encourages spreading points among scores instead of solely boosting one or two ability scores through the roof.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

To see if I have the math right, +2 stat would cost 4 MP, +4 stat would cost 9 MP (or 5 more, if you prefer to think of it that way), +6 stat would cost 14 MP, and +8 stat would cost 19 MP. Cool. Now I know how to stat up Commander Data, should I ever wish to bruise my brain from juggling all those skill points

 

[DarkKestral]

Actually, +8 would be 20 now that I think about it.

Plus, I think it works well with the way most LA characters spread around ability boosts rather than concentrate them, past the rough +4 'island of stability' or so, since +9 is 'high' but doesn't leave much room for the more minor perks most LA+0s get, and is not way out of line with LA+0, while LA+1 is 16-17 and capable of focusing more strongly in one stat, but again, without leaving much in the way of perks without some significant drawbacks.

Again, this is rough speculation from examining the mutation rules. It could be off, but it so far looks pretty balanced, and I think a LOT better than the SS way of determining LA, in general, as it allows for things like natural armor to not require an entire point of LA, even though they are somewhat powerful. It's still less finegrained than it could be, though.

They should make some construct rules though, (and frankly, Data for all of his apparent humanity, is definitely worthy of the construct type, since he basically gets to experience all of the perks AND disadvantages of it over the ST:TNG series and movies) since making a construct is a PAIN without some decent rules about lack of Con and how it affects character creation.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

There are a series of reasons why there's no flat mp to ability score conversion.

First, there's already mechanisms for having a high ability score -- roll it, pick it with ability points, or buy it up as you level.

Second, ability scores can be worth more or less depending on how you assign them. If +2 ability score is worth 4 mp, +4 ability score is worth more like 16 mp, and +6 is worth 36 mp. Now, I might allow those options in my game but coming up with 36 mp is so hard I'm not sure there's a point to listing it.

As for things like reinforced skeleton, the whole point is to make those separate from ability scores. A creature with a reinforced skeleton has certain advantages over other creatures of the same Constitution. You can have an 8 Con and a reinforced skeleton, or an 18 Con and a reinforced skeleton. either way, the reinforced skeleton gives you an edge over creatures of the same Constitution. If it had a built in +2 Constitution it would both be much more expensive, and be harder to give an apples-toapples comparison.

All that said however, one of the big advantages of the mp system is a GM can allow abilities not listed simply by assinging a mp cost. I think having a mutant race option is a great idea, especially if combined with mp for LA and mp for feat rules.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

They should make some construct rules though, (and frankly, Data for all of his apparent humanity, is definitely worthy of the construct type, since he basically gets to experience all of the perks AND disadvantages of it over the ST:TNG series and movies) since making a construct is a PAIN without some decent rules about lack of Con and how it affects character creation.

I would stat him up as a construct, but since we know the conversion of MP to level, I can do the converstion of stats to LA.

 

[DarkKestral]

Second, ability scores can be worth more or less depending on how you assign them. If +2 ability score is worth 4 mp, +4 ability score is worth more like 16 mp, and +6 is worth 36 mp. Now, I might allow those options in my game but coming up with 36 mp is so hard I'm not sure there's a point to listing it.

Ah. I knew the figures I gave felt wonky for high end, but those were an estimate anyway, and a very rough one I thought up in a matter of moments. On the other hand, I'd not mind getting some 'official' figures for building races using the MP system and LA as they make for a handy way of figuring out roughly how powerful a stat bonus is compared to almost anything else, since one mutation people are more likely to 'pay' for is a stat bonus, IMO, and it then becomes one of the more sorely needed ones.

I know that MP costs would need to increase over multiple uses, but assuming you are taking away human racial bonuses (and building to a baseline of a D&D/Urban Arcana-type LA+0) there are cases of races getting multiple +2s to a stat as a racial bonus with 1 or no racial stat penalties at low to 0 LA, so how would that be approached? As an application of a single +2 twice, 2 +2s + some additional cost, or +4?