d20 Future, Urban Arcana, Corebook Advanced Classes?

[takyris]

I'm getting ready to start a fantasy game that is pretty much going to be low-magic D&D-esque, albeit with the d20 Modern rules system. (ie, spellcasting as it happens in D&D, hit points, all that good stuff) My players pretty much got tired of me coming up with the perfect system and then having to learn that perfect system, so I've gone back to core books...at least for now.

I'm looking at the Advanced Classes in the corebook, as well as the ones in Urban Arcana and the d20 Future SRD. How do these stack up in play? My thus-far-handwaved ruling is "Any advanced class you can qualify for, provided it's not technology-dependent, and you can substitute Archaic Weapon Proficiency for Personal Firearms Proficiency whever you see PFP."

So, how do things stack up? What classes should I allow, if I'm looking for a powerful but not game-breaking experience? What classes do almost the same thing but have one that is demonstrably better than the other, so I should pick one of those and go with it?

Here's what I've got so far, just for reference:

Corebooks:
Soldier: Sure. No problems there.
Martial Artist: I can have an order of monastic warriors or unarmed assassins, sure.
Gunslinger: If I change this to "Knife-thrower" or "Archer", that could be reasonable.
Infiltrator: While none of my players ever wanted to play this class, I can see it working as a spy/scout class.
Bodyguard: The king is going to have a few of these guys around.
Daredevil: I'd have to replace Drive with something else, but he looks like an athletic acrobat right now. I don't see him as terribly popular, but not broken.
Field Scientist: Probably have to veto this one.
Techie: Ditto.
Investigator: A king's inquisitor-type sounds fine.
Field Medic: Since I'll have magical healing, this guy is probably out.
Personality: Sure, if anyone wants it. Might make a good noble class.
Negotiator: Do-able. Doesn't break anything.

Corebooks with Magical ties

Shadow Slayer: Possibly too powerful, given what people will be fighting. Not sure if this class would work in a D&D-type world.
Occultist: This class isn't necessary in the world I've got.
Telepath: No.
Battle Mind: No.
Mage: Sounds do-able.
Acolyte: Sounds do-able.

Urban Arcana

Arcane Arranger: No clue.
Archaic Weaponmaster: Sure, but should I ditch the soldier, then?
Glamourist: Don't see why not, but I don't see my PCs clamoring for this one.
Mystic: Opinions on coolness of Acolyte versus Mystic? Can both exist in the same world, or is one clearly better?
Shadow Hunter: Definitely in. All kinds of fun.
Shadowjack: Definitely out.
Speed Demon: No.
Street Warrior: Don't see why not.
Swashbuckler: In, unless it breaks something I can't see.
Techno Mage: Not in this world.
Thrasher: Again, don't see why not.
Wildlord: Sounds good.

d20 Future

Ambassador: Looks decent, could work in any setting, it looks like.
Dogfighter: no.
Dreadnought: Remove the references to powered armor and this guy looks like a tank's dream.
Engineer: no.
Explorer: Doesn't seem gamebreaking right now, unless I'm missing something.
Field Officer: If I had this guy, I could maybe ditch the Soldier, since the swashbuckler and archaic weaponmaster fill the "hitting stuff" role and this guy fulfills the "command and buff" role. Seem reasonable?
Helix Warrior: Nothing seems worrisome here except the "Shake off bad conditions" thing, which looks like it might mess up nonlethal dazing effects. But I dunno. Anybody played one?
Space Monkey: No. Just because of the monkey references, even.
Swindler: Don't see why not.
Technosavant: no.
Tracer: Despite the name, this is a tracker/assassin class, and it looks fine to me.
Xenophile: I almost ignored this one because of the name, but as a "Favored Enemy" class, this one could be fine.

So, to sum up, here are the questions I've got:

Which Strong fighter-type classes are worth keeping in terms of being fun for players? (Or should I keep them all and let the players decide? Are the game-breaking combinations?)
Has anyone used d20 Future classes like Swindler or Ambassador in a fantasy game? There could be enough politics for the Ambassador, but is it useful?

Which magic classes are worth keeping?

I'm not bringing in d20 Past because I don't have it, and I don't have a ton of money right now to spend on getting it. I'm not bringing in Grim Tales for the same reason, as well as for the fact that while the magic system sounds great, I'm specifically doing it the way I'm doing it because my players are not interested in learning new rules. They know D&D. They know d20 Modern. That's really all they're willing to know -- and it's not a bad thing. We're all pretty busy.

Thanks!

 

[Captain Tagon]

I can't really offer any advice on this but I just wanted to say I thought it was a really interesting idea. I never would of thought of it but now you have me interested in seeing how it turns out.

 

[Stormborn]

Well, now as you know from my thread I am basically thinking about doing the same thing. And for much the same reasons. I hadn't gotten as far as thinking through AdvC as I plan on starting them at level 1 as about 13-14 and in training. Will be interesting to see how this works out.

Edit: Don't forget the Sorcerer class from d20 Past. Considering what you are looking for, its one of the best reasons to buy the book.

 

[takyris]

Stormborn: No d20 Past. Or at least, no d20 Past SRD in place yet, so I don't have access to it. And buying it myself isn't even really feasible -- this will be an IRC game with a bunch of buddies who made up my local gaming group before I moved, so not only would I have to get d20 Past, but I'd have to have them get it, too.

Honestly, I'd love to use the Babylon 5 Telepath rules for magic -- sinister magicians modifying the minds of the hapless people -- but I'm resisting, because again, that's me trying to come up with something new and cool that would be a pain in the butt for my buddies to learn.

 

[Khorod]

I've only looked at it out of the corner of my eye, but doesn't Grim Tales target this better than straight-up Modern?

I've only really looked at the core book for any length of time, but my impression of the Soldier is Tactics & Weapon Specialist Guy. I'll point out he even has Medium BAB, meaning its not a good pick for general combat excellence.

In terms of the Core Advanced Classes, it does a good job at crystalizing the elite infantry soldier. The real question is what kinds of Archetypes of Warrior do you want?

 

[takyris]

I've only looked at it out of the corner of my eye, but doesn't Grim Tales target this better than straight-up Modern?

Quite possibly, but as I mentioned in the first post, I'm limited by what I can expect a group of geeks spread across several countries to buy -- if I try to get them to learn a completely new ruleset (or a ruleset with many subtle but important difference, such as Grim Tales), the game tends to fall through.

So Grim Tales, while a great product, is out for this game.

 

[Mokona]

I plan to use D20 Modern for a D&D-era game of mine. Here are some notes I wrote.

The following classes are for NPC use only: Speed Demon (horsemanship), Techie (construct magician), Techno Mage (a type of sorcerer), Engineer (NPC dwarf technicians only), Space Monkey (clannish races), and Technosavant. I kept these classes for NPCs because some of the abilities allow me to simulate interesting quirks while I can ignore to high-tech abilities that would need to be altered for a PC worthy class.

I reserved Helix Warrior for a special racial class (such as dragons, or half-dragon warriors which in my human only game will be NPC restricted).

The best choices for a fighter character is one of the following: Martial Artist, Shadow Slayer (limit shadows to one creature type such as fiends), Street Warrior, Field Officer, and Tracer.

The only choices for magic-users are: Mystic (a variant cleric), Telepath, Battle Mind, Mage, Acolyte, and Occultist (I'm not sure anyone would want to take Occultist but it fits the secret societies theme of my game).

Dreadnought is an awesome class for a tank character and is almost too powerful but I like it so much that I'm keeping it.

My game is less combat focused so I let the players have a free hand in picking skills in order to make up for modern only skills on class lists like Drive, Demolitions, Craft (electronics), etc. I allow D&D skills where appropriate such as Perform (oratory) and Use Rope. For the Knowledge skills I mapped standard D&D Knowledges over to D20 Modern terminology.

One of my players plans to play an Infiltrator. They're much weaker than Rogues in combat because of the Wizard Base Attack Bonus progression and lack of Sneak Attack damage (which is a plus in my opinion).