d20 Modern for the future of a D&D setting...

[Jürgen Hubert]

One of my pipe dreams is to one day develop a "future history" of Urbis (I know, I know, I should probably worrying about completing the current setting...), with more advanced technology.

And I'd like to use the d20 Modern rules because I think that the classical D&D rules and classes would be no longer appropriate for such a high-tech setting. But there are a few stumbling blocks here.

First of all is that spell-casting PCs in d20 Modern tend to be less powerful than their D&D counterparts - which isn't surprising, considering they can only start to cast spells at 4th level as opposed to the first. Yet it would make sense if the spellcasters became more powerful rather than less thanks to several centuries of spell research.

I have thought of this solution: The d20 Modern spellcasting prestige classes can still only be taken at 4th level at the earliest. But they no longer have to prepare their spells in advance, but can cast them spontaneously like the sorcerer. This might keep them balanced with "older" characters in overall power...

What are your thoughts on this? Does this sound like a good solution to the dilemma? Or do you have any other ideas?

 

[Turanil]

I have thought of this solution: The d20 Modern spellcasting prestige classes can still only be taken at 4th level at the earliest. But they no longer have to prepare their spells in advance, but can cast them spontaneously like the sorcerer. This might keep them balanced with "older" characters in overall power...

What are your thoughts on this? Does this sound like a good solution to the dilemma? Or do you have any other ideas?

I think it's an excellent idea. Very simple (a houserule that doesn't require to rewrite anything), and cool for the players.

I would also suggest this: using Incantations (Unearthed Arcana, and Urban Arcana) for spells of 6th-9th level, since the AdC mage is limited to 5th level spell when reaching the 10th level.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I think it's an excellent idea. Very simple (a houserule that doesn't require to rewrite anything), and cool for the players.

I would also suggest this: using Incantations (Unearthed Arcana, and Urban Arcana) for spells of 6th-9th level, since the AdC mage is limited to 5th level spell when reaching the 10th level.

Actually, I had thought of simply extending the acolyte/mytic level progressions so that they match that of the wizard/cleric (in effect extending them to 17 levels) and simply using the existing D&D spells for 6th level and higher spells. I mean, I can't see any good reason why these spells should suddenly vanish from the world.

Though I haven't given Incantations more than a cursory glance. How do they stack power-wise with existing spells?


And has anyone else tried to create a "future history" version of existing settings (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Greyhawk etc.) using the d20 Modern rules?

 

[DMScott]

First of all is that spell-casting PCs in d20 Modern tend to be less powerful than their D&D counterparts - which isn't surprising, considering they can only start to cast spells at 4th level as opposed to the first. Yet it would make sense if the spellcasters became more powerful rather than less thanks to several centuries of spell research.

Well, what you run into here is really a matter of defining the setting. The default d20 Modern setting is a world much like our own, which means that magic (if it exists at all) takes a back seat to technology. If the world once had more D&D-like magic, then something happened to change that - magic power waned, and/or all the people who knew the really power stuff died/left/whatever. So one alternative is simply to write such an event into your history, if you want to keep d20 Modern as-is.

If OTOH you want to have a world with both high magic and modern technology, then it seems to me the obvious route is to add in a class path that eventually leads to 9th level spells. Maybe import the first 10 levels of the Spellcaster from Unearthed Arcana as a seventh basic class, and then have advanced or prestige classes to get up to the heights of power. That makes magic an open, known field of knowledge.

Another option would be to come up with a class-free magic system, perhaps based on feats. So a character who wants to be a spellcaster takes whatever class mix they like, but depending on how dedicated they are they spend a lot of feats on getting spellcasting abilities.

d20 Modern is a toolkit so whichever solution works can certainly be implemented; to me the more important question is "how does this affect the modern world?" The availability of magic changes technological development, and the presence of D&D-style activist gods would have a huge effect on cultural development. Things would certainly be very different from our own world.

 

[arscott]

Why not add a set of talents and/or feats that smart and dedicated heroes can take to gain caster levels.

Example:

Smart talent:
Arcane Spark: Your spells known, spells per day, and caster level increase as though you had gained a level in the appropriate arcane spellcasting class. This talent can't be used to raise your effective spellcaster level beyond your character level.
Prerequisite: At least one level in an arcane spellcasting class.


Remember though, that some spells can have unintended effects when brought into a d20Modern game. For instance, a 10-die fireball will just do about 35 damage per person in a d&d game. but in a modern game, that 35 damage is enough to trigger the massive damage threshhold, even on a successful save.

 

[Runesong42]

One idea that I plan to someday implement into my d20 Modern game deals specifically with magic. I would simply use the Psionic mechanic for spells. You get [x] amount of mana at your level, and each spell cost is based on its level (ie. 1 for 1st, 3 for 2nd, 5 for 3rd etc.) If you didn't want to worry so much about learning new spells, you could most certainly have them learn as sorcerers instead.

If you wanted to switch spells to a skills base, you could take the mechanic from another well-known game system, GURPS. Have spells maybe cost 1 point to learn, and you can drop more points into them. Once you reach a certain rank, you can start doing nifty things, like reducing the casting cost by one point (again assuming you're using the Psionic mechanic) and spending more mana to increase effect/duration/etc (essentially giving metamagic feats for free)... work it just like the bard's song ability from d20 fantasy.

You could have a spellcasting feat, and then maybe advanced spellcasting to improve the ranks of all your spell-skills by +2; you could have all spells categorized by type or school and give bonuses to "specialists"; you could even allow people to invent spells and effects "on the fly" with the DCs increasing for every level of spell you wish to duplicate (removing the concept of mana points altogether).

Yup, it's rougly 2 am, the time when, supposedly, the mind is at its most creative. That explains how I've written so much already. *LOL*.

This is all, of course, assuming you want magic to take a leading role in a modern setting. Do try to remember, though, that (realistically speaking) flash-bang magic would be much less practical to learn than 'useful' magic (such as divinations, illusions, alteration and conjuration magics).

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Remember though, that some spells can have unintended effects when brought into a d20Modern game. For instance, a 10-die fireball will just do about 35 damage per person in a d&d game. but in a modern game, that 35 damage is enough to trigger the massive damage threshhold, even on a successful save.

Well, it is easy enough to change that Massive Damage Threshold back to 50...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

d20 Modern is a toolkit so whichever solution works can certainly be implemented; to me the more important question is "how does this affect the modern world?" The availability of magic changes technological development, and the presence of D&D-style activist gods would have a huge effect on cultural development. Things would certainly be very different from our own world.

Well, certainly - I want a relatively seamless blend of magic and technology.

Fortunately, the world of Urbis is already familiar with "industrial" uses of magic...

 

[Turanil]

Smart talent:
Arcane Spark: Your spells known, spells per day, and caster level increase as though you had gained a level in the appropriate arcane spellcasting class. This talent can't be used to raise your effective spellcaster level beyond your character level. Prerequisite: At least one level in an arcane spellcasting class.

I like this very much. The d20 Modern adept-mage class stays at 10 levels, but you can get more spellcasting level (spell progression of DnD wizards) in taking a talent.

Remember though, that some spells can have unintended effects when brought into a d20Modern game. For instance, a 10-die fireball will just do about 35 damage per person in a d&d game. but in a modern game, that 35 damage is enough to trigger the massive damage threshhold, even on a successful save.

True, but now d20 Modern has technology that easily enable to do 10d6 of damage without the need for a fireball spell. Enough dynamite, TNT, plastic explosives, or else, and you can achieve similar results, probably on a larger scale (I admit I am not looking at the book for the stats though...).

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I like this very much. The d20 Modern adept-mage class stays at 10 levels, but you can get more spellcasting level (spell progression of DnD wizards) in taking a talent.

Hmmm... you are right, this sounds like it could work.

I'd think it works best if you make up seperate "spellcaster level tables" for each of the types of spellcaster - arcane (wizard), arcane (sorcerer), and divine. And appropriate talents that add to these levels are available to Smart, Charismatic, and Dedicated Heroes, respectively.

Then you could either use the existing spellcasting advanced classes, or create new ones to model the old spellcasters.

The Bard, Paladin, and Ranger advanced classes would add to the arcane (sorcerer) or divine spellcasting level every second or third class level, and the Cleric and Druid advanced classes would each offer different special abilities...

This would help portray a gradual evolution from the old D&D-style class system, yet allow for the flexibility of d20 Modern.

What are your thoughts on this?