d20 Modern = GURPS but better?

[JPL]

Gurps...some terrific sourcebooks. Steampunk, for example. But this "What is GURPs" thread has got me thinking...d20 is already the most widely-played system in the world, I'd wager. I would dearly love to run some of these quirky campaigns from the GURPS library, but I don't dig the system at all.

So, with all due respect to GURPS fans and SJG, I want to put this out on the table: with d20 Modern, most of the tools will be in place for a universal gaming system with greater popularity, greater playability, and more diverse resources than any which have come before. And I hope five years from now d20 gamers have the full spectrum of choices currently enjoyed by GURPers, combined with the easy-drinking goodness of d20.

 

[WizarDru]

I tend to doubt it, since many of the people who gravitate to GURPS prefer it's different feel and style, whether it's the distate for a class system, preference for the variability or what have you.

The more the merrier, say I, but I also think we ought to actually let them PUBLISH d20 Modern before we declare the king of all modern game settings.

 

[Cyragnome]

An intriguing idea. I really liked some of the ideas from ShadowChasers in Dungeon 91, for example. Here's the kicker, in my opinion, though...With the d20 proliferation there's getting to be too much conversion required. While a WOT of character might fit with minimal modification into a 3e campaign, don't even try it with d20 StarWars or Modern. That limited or no requirement for conversion, to me, is one appeal to a GURPS or HERO system. Another thing is that I really don't like class based systems, I like 3e for fantasy because the Archetypes fit, to me, there's nothing logical in my thinking on that so it's futile to attack it (by saying there's archetypes in SCI-FI or Superheros).

With that said, d20 Modern *might* be the system to look at if you're interested in trying to pull it off, it looks like the +'s of 3e with additional improvements not rooted in the past flaws of DnD in general (armor is DR rather than adding to AC, for example). And honestly, I'm a Traveller junky as well, so I will check out d20 Traveller, just for kicks.

 

[cbatt]

If d20 modern does away with the class/level system and moves to a pure skills/feats(/specials) system, I'll seriously consider it. Otherwise I have HERO 5th or GURPS which fit my concepts of "modern" gaming a lot better (for the same reasons as Cyragnome).

 

[Zappo]

Personally, I think d20 = GURPS but better. After all, d20 modern would be just another specialization of the d20 system. It's the d20 system in itself the real generic system.

Cyragnome said that in GURPS you need no converting if you want to port a character from a setting to another. That's true. You would not be able to easily port a character from d20 Star Wars to d20 D&D. However, I wonder: why on Earth would someone want to do that? Never in my roleplaying career I have had the need to move a character between settings; I have a hard time even figuring out a good reason for which it might be needed.

I think that the big difference between GURPS and the d20 system is that GURPS is extremely complex because it attempts to represent well enough all possible settings, while the d20 system at its core is very simple and 'specializes' in each setting developed - creating new rules to better represent that particular setting.
This means that a new GURPS setting doesn't need many new rules, but the system itself is necessarily very complex. And a new d20 setting needs a good pagecount of new rules, but overall it can be kept simpler.

 

[JPL]

The reason I say d20 Modern rather than d20 itself is because the former is the first attempt to present the d20 in its most basic, most adaptable form.

I know that some people would prefer d20 without classes or levels --- but the six basic classes for d20 Modern, by looking at character archetypes from the most basic level --- strong hero, fast hero, etc. --- certainly allows more customization and flexibility than, for example, DD3e. And "Level" is just a good way to track relative power/skill levels --- as in GURPs, where character point totals give you some idea of where everybody stands.

I actually think d20 thus far is pretty portable --- it's fairly easy to convert, say, Oriental Adventures monsters to Pulp Heroes (in case Indiana Jones encounters big trouble in Little China). I pretty much want to avoid drow Jedi, but it's easily done, if your kid brother wants to play Darth Drizzt. The psionics system plus Shadowchasers so you can play some psychic monster hunters? No problem.

 

[Cyragnome]

Zappo said:

...GURPS you need no converting if you want to port a character from a setting to another...why on Earth would someone want to do that? Never in my roleplaying career I have had the need to move a character between settings; I have a hard time even figuring out a good reason for which it might be needed.

Have you ever wanted to jazz up a campaign? Add new features? Change something drastically? Well, that's what it's for. I've changed simple Espionage campaigns into Horror Campaigns (sometimes without telling the players) or you've got Time Travel campaigns (I was a Dr. Who junky, loved my Time Travel) or Alternate Universe campaigns...there's tons of reasons. There's also a broad ranging Sci Fi campaign where you may want to have a survival adventure, for example...on a Stone Age or Rennaissance Age planet...This is all GURPS aside mind you and can be emulated with pretty much any system (if you're willing to work with it)...for me it requires less effort to use a GURPS or HERO to emulate those types of games...

 

[LostSoul]

I'm not sure what d20 Modern is going to look like. But if it doesn't suggest an alternate system for hit points - a grittier and more deadly one - people will still turn thier noses up at it.

Not everyone wants to play games where characters can leap off buildings and land running.

 

[mmadsen]

Personally, I think d20 = GURPS but better.

How? Not "how is it better?" but "how are they equal?" One's a complex simulationist game; the other gives extra hit points with each level. They're hardly interchangeable.

However, I wonder: why on Earth would someone want to do that? Never in my roleplaying career I have had the need to move a character between settings; I have a hard time even figuring out a good reason for which it might be needed.

Wow. I think you don't realize how unusual you are. From what I've seen, the vast majority of roleplayers love mixing genres, even if they're not playing a time-travel or planet-hopping sci-fi game. Look at the old Barrier Peaks module!

I think that the big difference between GURPS and the d20 system is that GURPS is extremely complex because it attempts to represent well enough all possible settings, while the d20 system at its core is very simple and 'specializes' in each setting developed - creating new rules to better represent that particular setting.

GURPS' complexity doesn't come from modeling multiple genres; the game was quite complex as a pure medieval hand-to-hand combat game (called Hand to Hand, if I recall correctly). It follows a completely different design strategy from d20.

 

[mmadsen]

I'm not sure what d20 Modern is going to look like. But if it doesn't suggest an alternate system for hit points - a grittier and more deadly one - people will still turn thier noses up at it.

Not simply grittier, but one where hit points aren't tied to everything else. I don't want a 10th-level super-scientist to have ten times as many hit points as a 1st-level research assistant.