d20 Modern = GURPS but better?

[Synicism]

Gurps...some terrific sourcebooks. Steampunk, for example. But this "What is GURPs" thread has got me thinking...d20 is already the most widely-played system in the world, I'd wager. I would dearly love to run some of these quirky campaigns from the GURPS library, but I don't dig the system at all.

Honestly, it's just a matter of taste. I actually prefer GURPS for (1) it's incredible flexibility (I'm sick of classes), (2) it's point based system (I like being able to improve my character modestly every session instead of waiting to "level"), and a couple other things. I think it's just a more sophisticated system.

Still, I think d20 is a good competitor because sometimes, the ease of a class/level system just makes for a quicker game, and occasionally I like laying waste to entire armies with a wave of my hand.

It's all a matter of preference. I'll probably wind up playing both.

 

[Forlorn]

Regarding HP in D20 Modern.

If I remember correctly they are using the VP/WP instead of HP in it. Which I think is a good thing. With the Vitality Point/Wound Point system you can still have dramatic battles, but when you get tired and run out of Vitality and take a real hit, chances are, your dead. Check Agard 2 for a version for DnD. Good Stuff

 

[Sulimo]

So, with all due respect to GURPS fans and SJG, I want to put this out on the table: with d20 Modern, most of the tools will be in place for a universal gaming system with greater popularity, greater playability, and more diverse resources than any which have come before. And I hope five years from now d20 gamers have the full spectrum of choices currently enjoyed by GURPers, combined with the easy-drinking goodness of d20.

I just hope it hasnt driven all the other games out of business. That would be a sad day indeed.

 

[LostSoul]

If I remember correctly they are using the VP/WP instead of HP in it.

I've seen the VP/WP in Star Wars, and I've been using a variant of the same in my D&D game for the past 5 to 8 years. I think it works better than normal hit points; but still, when you get to high levels...

An example from Star Wars:

Boushh: [in Ubese subtitled] I want fifty thousand. No less.
Threepio: Fifty thousand. No less.
Jabba immediately flies into a rage, knocking the golden droid off the raised throne into a cluttering heap on the floor.
Boushh adjusts his weapon as Jabba raves in Huttese and Threepio struggles back onto the throne. The disheveled droid tries to compose himself.
Threepio: Oh, no.... but what, what did I say? [to Boushh] Uh, the mighty Jabba asks why he must pay fifty thousand.
The bounty hunter holds up a small silver ball in his hand.
Threepio: Because he's holding a thermal detonator.
Threepio is very nervous. The guards instantly back away, as do most of the other monsters in the room. But Boba Fett raises his gun. The room has fallen into a tense hush. Jabba begins to laugh.
Jabba: [in Huttese subtitled] This bounty hunter is my kind of scum, fearless and inventive.

In the game, a slightly different version:
Carrie (as Boushh): "Fifty thousand, no less." I pull out my Thermal Detonator and try to Intimidate them.
George (the GM): Okay, "Boushh", make a roll.
Carrie: Oh crap... a 1. I just stand there, I guess.
George (the GM): Jabba laughs. "Ho ho ho." He rambles on in Huttese. Boba Fett points his blaster at you.
Carrie: I throw the detonator at him!
George: Roll 8d6 for damage.
Carrie: 29.
George: Boba dusts off his suit and blasts you. The two guards next to Boba are dead, but everyone else is fine. Jabba's still laughing.
Harrison: I guess thermal detonators are overrated, eh princess?

 

[Zappo]

Have you ever wanted to jazz up a campaign? Add new features? Change something drastically?

No. Not to the point of having to change the rules. However, it has happened in campaigns I played in, and it always ended up with the campaign falling apart shortly after. It seems to be a symptom of the master not having any more ideas, or the setting being boring. It is not a coincidence that radical setting changes are rare in fiction, and even more so in long cycles.

How? Not "how is it better?" but "how are they equal?" One's a complex simulationist game; the other gives extra hit points with each level. They're hardly interchangeable.

d20 doesn't give extra hit points with each level. D&D does. I haven't seen d20 modern, but it seems that it uses WP/VP. It could just as well only give 5+con modifier hit points to everyone and no more, and it would still be called d20. As I said, the d20 system is much simpler than GURPS and it needs to be specialized in each setting it represents.

Wow. I think you don't realize how unusual you are. From what I've seen, the vast majority of roleplayers love mixing genres, even if they're not playing a time-travel or planet-hopping sci-fi game. Look at the old Barrier Peaks module!

OK, clearly we've had different experiences. In my experience, changing the genre of the campaign while it is running is something only done by very inexperienced DMs, when the DM is really out of ideas, or for one adventure only (Barrier Peaks). The latter case can easily work with ad-hoc rules, since it's for one adventure only. Also, unless it is a case of 'just for this adventure', all players I know agree with me that it's a bad thing to do - though some of them had to try it first in games they DMed of course.

It follows a completely different design strategy from d20.

Which is what I said in detail in my previous post. GURPS has almost all the rules for all genres, d20 has no rule for any genre except for a kernel of rules that aren't tied to anything. When I compared the two, I meant to compare them in efficiency in describing a given setting with the best ratio between rule complexity and ability to represent a character in the setting. I feel that the designer has to do more work making a d20 setting, but the player (including the DM) has a far easier time, once the work is done - and GURPS only has a slight edge in terms of representing a character well; an edge that is only seen with a few characters.