D20 Modern Heroic

[Essex]

Clipped this from my opening. I honestly don't know whats D20 Open License-covered or not, so if anything violates, I apologize and will remove this if politely notified.

Many gamers in my area have expressed a dissatisfaction with the original D20 Modern game as published by Wizards of the Coast. The character classes are weak and underpowered. The prestige classes are what any other system would have presented as core classes. The argument is that D20 Modern is a game where you play average people who get drawn into the hidden supernatural world around them. As such, the power level is toned down.

I created this system to provide an option to those who want to play a more heroic modern fantasy game. I have taken the prestige classes of D20 Modern, mixed them with Talent Trees of the Core Classes and have provided a new scale for the pre-existing game. Instead of starting off as teenagers in high school, you can begin play as adults, professionals, and trained individuals who seek to protect the world from the Darkness around it.

Originally, this was designed to allow our local gaming group to portray characters and events from Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: the Series, as well as Forever Knight and Highlander, using the D20 system. We wanted a Modern Fantasy game that was less Dungeons & Dragons Meets The Real World and more of a blend of many of the genre shows that inspire us. As such, you will find several templates and classes based on these shows, including several different vampire templates based on these shows, and other D20 products. This is not intended as copyright infringement or any kind of canon material. Feel free to discard or alter them, or any other part of this document as you see fit. This was a pet project for a small group of people that I have been persuaded to post out on the Net. Be kind…

I'm about to upgrade the rules for my next campaign and wouldn't mind some input. I do think its a tad over-powered, though my group disagrees. However, they are a tad biased, hence my attempt to try this out here. Its in Word format.

 

[Bagpuss]

Don't see the point of it myself you can play stuff like Buffy and Highlander using D20 Modern you just don't start at 1st level.

 

[JPL]

Don't see the point of it myself you can play stuff like Buffy and Highlander using D20 Modern you just don't start at 1st level.

Ditto.

But if it works for you, that's what's important.

 

[Essex]

Ditto.

But if it works for you, that's what's important.

The basic problem is that it ONLY works for playing high schoolers trying to save the world. If you wanted to play an adult, the campaign has to start off at about 10th level. This was an attempt to reset the scale. Most D20 worlds assume a 1st level character is about 18yo. D20 Modern assumes you're around 15 and most entry requirements for the "prestige" classes are fairly steep.

*shrug* As you said, its our one complaint with D20 Modern. I usually just read the DnD boards, so I don't know if anyone else felt the same. Guess not.

BTW, Bagpuss, great DM screen. Wish I'd hit this board sooner.

 

[JPL]

The basic problem is that it ONLY works for playing high schoolers trying to save the world. If you wanted to play an adult, the campaign has to start off at about 10th level. This was an attempt to reset the scale. Most D20 worlds assume a 1st level character is about 18yo. D20 Modern assumes you're around 15 and most entry requirements for the "prestige" classes are fairly steep.
QUOTE]

I agree that the scale is different. And yes, if you assume most NPCs are 2nd-level ordinaries or higher, a first-level hero is probably a teenager destined for greatness.

I've found simply starting at a higher level fixes things. 10th is pretty beefy, though. If we're playing Green Berets, fine...that's about right for a starting Green Beret...but a 10th level d20 Modern character is vastly more powerful than a starting D&D character.

And the advanced class requirements can all be met by 4th level. How is that "steep"?

 

[Essex]

The 4th level entrance is only if you custom tailor it to hit that class quickly. In two campaigns under D20 Modern, the average number of classes a character had was 4, primarily because someone wanted a talent or two for a different class. However, since most classes start with a +0 in almost every column this effectively means character advancement halts.

It also sets a higher cap for the players. If you start at 10th level, its only a 10-level game. What this was, was to allow character to design characters that weren't heavily multi-classed AND still allows them to travel the full 20-level spread.

As pointed out, its a taste thing. I have no problems with D20 Modern. I LOVE D20 Modern. But for our playing style, this "scale-reset" was much more useful. If we're the only 4 people in the world, who think so, oh well then. I'm not razzing the system or saying this is the way things should be done.

 

[takyris]

Here's the heart of it for me.

The character classes are weak and underpowered. The prestige classes are what any other system would have presented as core classes.

I disagree. d20 Modern classes are not weak and underpowered. They are balanced. While I understand that giving the soldier fighter-type attack progression sounds more fun, it's not balanced. The reason martial artists get fighter progression and soldiers get 3/4 progression is that martial artists don't, as a rule, use guns, so their power is inherently limited -- and also because soldiers get d10 hit points while martial artists get 1d8. If you look through the normal book, you'll see that no gun-oriented advanced class gets fighter progression. That's there for a reason.

Your system limits my flexibility in character creation. The whole reason the basic classes are there is to give people more flexibility. If you want to play a game with archetype starting classes rather than multiclass-friendly template-type classes, you should be playing a different game (for combat-type stuff, Spycraft is wonderful, I hear, and uses classes not unlike the ones you've listed).

Beyond that, the problems you mention are, as others have noted, problems with what level you're starting at. Starting at fourth level for a "we're normal folks who kill vampires" game or sixth level for "we're soldiers going on special missions" game would solve everything more elegantly. As it is, you're going to have a Green Beret with about 12 hit points and a BAB of +1 and two feats, as opposed to a Green Beret with 32 hit points and a BAB of +3 and four feats (not including class talents), assuming average hit point rolls and a Con of 14. Also, my fourth-level character will walk all over your character, skillswise, and have a better defense.

And then you've altered the special ability progressions so that they don't get their 10th-level stuff until 20th level. That's not as good as multiclassing, again. Yes, the soldier's critical strike is powerful, but it's not so powerful that it should only be accessible at 20th level. A character who is focused on that goal is supposed to be able to get it at 13th level.

The important thing is, as others have said, that you enjoy it yourself, but it looks like you're recreating the Spycraft wheel -- and I'd prefer the flexibility of standard character creation, plus a higher starting level, to run the games that you describe.

 

[JPL]

Sidebar:

Recently, I've been statting up some 16th-20th level characters for a modern pulp game [the gist of it is "Ultimate Doc Savage" a la Marvel Comics' Ultimate line]. I'm using both "Blood and Fists" and "Blood and Guts."

Each of these characters is supposed to be a sort of Buckaroo Banzai scientist/adventurer/ex-Special Forces/martial artist.

Most of them are coming out like this: Base Class 3 / Base Class 3 / Martial Arts Master 2 / Special Forces 4 / Advanced Class 4.

Anyway..it's tricky to cover so many bases with a single character, but it works. They are each maxed out in an area of technical or scientific expertise, plus handy in a fistfight, plus a solid shooter.

So that's why I can't see d20 Modern characters as underpowered. A guy with Computer Use +25, 1d6+2 unarmed damage, and a shotgun is about as much power as I need.

[The Doc character is Str2/Fst2/Tgh2/Smt2/Ded2/Cha2/Jeet Kune Do Master 2 / Special Forces Medical Sergeant 3 / Field Medic 3. Man, that guy took me all evening to stat out right...]

 

[C. Baize]

For myself, I like the basic classes in D20 Modern. In fact, my 9th level Tough Hero was significantly higher powered than most of the characters that took the Advanced and Prestige Classes. And I'm not a min-maxer, or a munchkin... I was completely following his experiences, and choosing talents / feats based on those. Now... because we're using the gritty rules from Blood and Guts, he could still VERY easily be killed, but just with the base class, he's significantly more apt to survive than the other characters. This was starting him as a 1st level 32 year old Tough Hero, with the Criminal Occupation.
I'd argue that D20 Modern is not based on high schoolers (though that is what another of our groups is), rather it is based on your average everyday folks, who get pulled into nonaverage situations.
Your mileage can and will vary.

 

[Vigilance]

My experience with my players was that they seriously disliked the basic classes, thought they were lame, and wanted more normal d20... until they actually used them.

Now they love them.

Starting st 4th level, letting players make a character and see how the basic classes work, usually solves these problems in my experience.

Essex, if you players keep hopping to classes with +0 BAB and then can't get into the advanced classes, that's them making a character choice, it's not a problem with the game.

My .02

Chuck