[d20 Modern] New Feat - One Shot, One Kill

[Elwolf]

I’m not sure about which version of this feat to go with, so I’ll post all three versions for some feedback – something that I’ve cooked up, after seeing a thread on the Wizard’s d20 Modern about how guns weren’t underpowered (with an example of the Barrett Light .50 using Double Tap to do 3d12 damage and based on average damage 19.5 forcing a massive damage save for almost anyone). Unfortunately, the idea of Double Tap being used with a scoped rifle at long range really sticks in my craw, as I’ve the impression that double tapping is something that is done at fairly short ranges, and certainly not when you’re placing crosshairs between someone’s eyes, hence the new feat.

(This one is based off the Double Tap feat)
One Shot, One Kill
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Far Shot, Dead Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Benefit: As a full round action, using this feat, the character may carefully line up a single shot, taking –2 to hit, but gaining +1 die of damage on a successful hit. This feat has no effect on creatures immune to criticals.
Special: The use of a scope (if fitted) is subsumed into the full round action (normally it requires an attack action to use a scope).

Or

(This one is based off the Burst Fire feat)
One Shot, One Kill
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Far Shot, Dead Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Benefit: After spending a full round action using the Dead Aim feat, the character can then line up a single shot using a full round action, taking –4 to hit, but gaining +2 dice of damage on a successful hit. This feat has no effect on creatures immune to criticals.
Special: The use of a scope (if fitted) is subsumed into the full round action (normally it requires an attack action to use a scope).

Basically the first one requires that you use a full round action to take the shot, while the second requires that you first use Dead Aim, and then in the second round use a full round action to take the shot. I figure the first one is pretty well balanced (and if that ain’t painting a target on my forehead, I have no idea what will), as the character used a swag of feats to gain it, and has to sacrifice the ability to take multiple shots in exchange for a better chance of forcing a massive damage save. The second I’m not so sure about. It does chew up two rounds worth of actions, but the two extra dice of damage might be a bit excessive. Thoughts?

[Editted - modified both slightly as found I'd not taken into account the fact that a scope requires an attack action to use]

 

[Crothian]

I like the first one better, easier to make use of. Nice job.

 

[JoeCrow]

Like the idea, but I'm torn over using Point Blank Shot as a prereq for a sniper feat. It's kinda close range focused. Did you consider using a BAB bonus (+6 or so) or Focused (+2 to Balance and Concentration) instead? Maybe Weapon Focus...but that's tighter in d20 Modern, isn't it? Requires specific weapon, rather than weapon type? (I'm running off the SRD right now, the book's at home.)

Hmm. Just some thoughts.

Good work though.

 

[Bagpuss]

Unfortunately, the idea of Double Tap being used with a scoped rifle at long range really sticks in my craw, as I’ve the impression that double tapping is something that is done at fairly short ranges, and certainly not when you’re placing crosshairs between someone’s eyes, hence the new feat.

(This one is based off the Double Tap feat)
One Shot, One Kill
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Far Shot, Dead Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Benefit: As a full round action, using this feat, the character may carefully line up a single shot, taking –2 to hit, but gaining +1 die of damage on a successful hit. This feat has no effect on creatures immune to criticals.

Or

(This one is based off the Burst Fire feat)
One Shot, One Kill
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Far Shot, Dead Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Benefit: After spending a full round action using the Dead Aim feat, the character can then line up a single shot using a full round action, taking –4 to hit, but gaining +2 dice of damage on a successful hit. This feat has no effect on creatures immune to criticals.

Basically the first one requires that you use a full round action to take the shot, while the second requires that you first use Dead Aim, and then in the second round use a full round action to take the shot. I figure the first one is pretty well balanced (and if that ain’t painting a target on my forehead, I have no idea what will), as the character used a swag of feats to gain it, and has to sacrifice the ability to take multiple shots in exchange for a better chance of forcing a massive damage save. The second I’m not so sure about. It does chew up two rounds worth of actions, but the two extra dice of damage might be a bit excessive. Thoughts?

Hmm well the first one is really underpowered. Compare it with the Double Tap Feat.

Double Tap, only has two requirements, Dex 13, Point Blank Shot both will probably be common for someone concentrating on ranged attacks.

Your first feat has five requirements.

Double tap can be used at any range, and gives +1 dice for -2 attack modifier.

Your Feat does the same, except your feat is a full round action and so can only be used with a single attack and never in the first round of combat.

Why would you EVER take this feat instead of Double Tap? Its pretty much the same question with the second feat, why not get Burst Fire instead, easier to get and useful in way more circumstances, and has the same effect?

Except both Burst Fire and Double Tap, still work for simple attack actions, at any range and against opponents immune to criticals.

Both of these feats are way to weak for the requirements and are already available in a more useful form.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think you'ld be better working on the fact most, sniper attacks are against targets that are unaware they are being attacked. Something like this might be better...

One Shot, One Kill
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Dead Aim, Far Shot, BAB 4+
By getting the drop on unaware opponent, the shooter can place his shot for maximum effect.
Benefit: The attacker makes a ranged attack roll against a target that is flat-footed or denied his Dex bonus to Defense. If the attack roll is successful, you automatically score a critical hit. This feat has no effect on creatures immune to criticals.

 

[Elwolf]

JoeCrow, Point Blank and Wisdom 13 are only listed as they are requirements for Precise Shot and Dead Aim respectively - I've just laid out the prereq's the same way as d20 Modern, listing all of them, rather than just the last in the chain.

Bagpuss, this is where I have a problem with Double Tap as written, that it can be done at any range - as I understand it, it's something that's done in close, and only ever in close, and definitely not used by the guy firing a scoped rifle at 500m. I shudder to even think of attempting it with something like the Light .50. Personally, I'm tempted to house rule Double Tap to be limited to the first range increment of whatever weapon's being used with it.

As far as the prereq's go, you could be right, though I picked Precise Shot because it's application was in well timed, accurate shots, which I figured fitted in well enough with the concept of a sniper taking out his target in a crowd. I think I'll wait for a bit more feedback yet, but if general consensus is that the prereq's are too steep, then I'll change them for what you're suggesting.

As for sniping being against unaware targets only, from my reading I'm not so sure that is the case - for sure, it's easier when the poor sod has no idea what's about to hit him, but as far as I'm aware, alert targets are just as fair game, although more difficult to hit (which is already represented in game by the fact that target has his dex mod, additional dodge bonuses if applicable, may be running, using cover, etc as opposed to being flatfooted).

Comparing your suggested feat with mine (being the –2/+1 die version – you’re quite right that the other one’s pretty screwed - the other option I was considering was for the feat to allow you to use either – a better shot –4/+2 dice if more time was taken to take the shot or –2/+1 die for a lesser shot) – yours does slightly more damage, but I see it as of less utility – as soon as your target’s no longer flatfooted, you might as well drop the PSG1 and grab your MP5 and use burst fire. The whole concept of the feat is basically that it’s to be used with high calibre (7.62mm NATO, Light .50), high damage rounds, increasing the damage enough that most shots (on average anyone with less than 16 Con (or 19 for the .50) are going to force massive damage saves.

I guess it comes down to a matter of style really in the end – I choke on the idea of double tap being used at anything but short ranges, and figure that this feat does okay compared to burst fire as it consumes ammunition at a far slower rate with a lesser penalty to hit. Compared to taking a full attack action, I figure it does okay as the extra die of damage pushes the massive damage save up by 4 or 5 points (assuming 2d8 or 2d10 weapon), and the additional iterative attacks may miss due to the decreasing attack bonus anyway. Any bolt action weapon stands to benefit from the feat, seeing as they cannot make use of double tap or burst fire – and there are plenty of sniper rifles out there that are bolt action. In the end as I see it, the feat as I posted it allows you to make a sniper – the guy that carefully takes every shot, not someone that puts 5 or 6 rounds down range in 6 seconds.

 

[Bagpuss]

Yeah, but it's still easier just to get Double Tap and use a semi-automatic rifle.

If it is ment to be 'One shot, One Kill' as you say then really you shouldn't be needing more than one shot. If you are firing multiple shots then its no longer "one shot, one kill" is it? And the effect of a rifle round is already factored into its damage level. Hence flat-footed (or denied Dex bonus) is fine, it makes it more about making the first shot count. Which tends to be what effective sniping is about.

Once a sniper has given away his position with the first shot, he's not likely to sit around for another two rounds for his next shot, so your feat isn't that useful. Also by requiring a full round action and Dead Aim, your feat can't be used in the supprise round, which seems the most logical place for a sniper to be acting in.

 

[Elwolf]

Yeah, but it's still easier just to get Double Tap and use a semi-automatic rifle.

If it is ment to be 'One shot, One Kill' as you say then really you shouldn't be needing more than one shot. If you are firing multiple shots then its no longer "one shot, one kill" is it? And the effect of a rifle round is already factored into its damage level. Hence flat-footed (or denied Dex bonus) is fine, it makes it more about making the first shot count. Which tends to be what effective sniping is about.

Once a sniper has given away his position with the first shot, he's not likely to sit around for another two rounds for his next shot, so your feat isn't that useful. Also by requiring a full round action and Dead Aim, your feat can't be used in the supprise round, which seems the most logical place for a sniper to be acting in.

Okay, you’re still comparing it to the second of the two I posted, which as I said in my previous post, you’re right, it is screwed up somewhat, so reposting the first one (cleaned up, as I missed scopes taking an action to use)…

One Shot, One Kill
Prerequisites: Wisdom 13, Far Shot, Dead Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Benefit: As a full round action, using this feat, the character may carefully line up a single shot, taking –2 to hit, but gaining +1 die of damage on a successful hit. This feat has no effect on creatures immune to criticals.
Special: The use of a scope (if fitted) is subsumed into the full round action (normally it requires an attack action to use a scope).

The surprise round is a mess. No full round actions, and if you don’t bend the rules to allow such actions outside of the combat, you get a situation where a sniper may sit observing a target, lining him up carefully, gauging the wind, etc (ie using Dead Aim prior to taking a shot), but because full round actions aren’t allowable in the surprise round, he can’t take that particularly carefully lined up shot. As it is, I’d use that first shot as the trigger of the surprise round, allowing the sniper the +2 for Dead Aim as he’d had plenty of prior to pulling the trigger to use the feat, outside of combat or not.

As for giving away one’s position it is quite possible to stay hidden while firing – say while using the PSG1 with Far Shot and Scope (range increment 180 ft, I’m dammed if I can find anything stating whether multipliers are treated the same way as 3e or just multiplied together, so using the conservative figure), shooting at a target 350 ft away, wearing a ghillie suit has an effective hide bonus of +25 vs the target’s spot checks (+35 for 350 ft apart, +10 for ghillie, -20 for attacking while hiding), +30 during combat (additional –5 to spot for being in combat situation). On top of that anyone dedicating themselves to being a sniper is more than likely to have a decent hide skill as well.

Finally, there is an option as a move action, to start/finish full round action, so during that surprise round the character could start lining up that shot, and on his next round action he could take the shot. Sure, if the target gets beats the sniper on the initiative, he’s no longer shooting at a flat-footed target, but then, if you take the first shot to be the trigger of the surprise round, he’s already had his first, free (as such) shot.

As an example of what I see it working like, take this situation – John Doe (our sniper) and his crazy team mates, whom to a man think that any firefight over 50 ft in range is for cowards, want to take out a band of thugs guarding a crossroads with a Jeep mounted .50 cal. JD takes a position on a nearby hill while his team mates sneak carefully up to their jump off point. Having arranged that the attack will start with JD dropping the thug on the .50 cal, communication between JD and his team mates is maintained by tactical radio. Calmly gauging the wind and carefully sighting in on the .50 cal thug, JD whispers into his throat mike, “Standby”, warning his team mates the shot is about to be taken. Deliberately controlling his breathing, JD gently squeezes the trigger. Before the bark of the PSG1 even reaches the thugs, the one manning the .50 cal slumps. (Surprise round begins, Team mates have highest initiative, JD lower, no thugs manage to react). Two of JD’s team mates open up with autofire at the thugs, spraying the area in front of the Jeep, and pegging one, while the other team mates run, trying to get into a flanking position to deny the thugs the benefits of cover behind the Jeep. JD calmly begins to take aim at one of the thugs behind the Jeep (move action to begin full round action). (1st round begins, thugs have higher initiative than any in team) The thugs start diving for cover and open fire on the team mates in close (in a firefight with threats in close, none of the thugs make the spot check necessary to discern JD’s position), and manage to get a couple of solid hits on one of them. The supporting team mates continue to fire on the thugs, managing to get another, while the flanking team mates continue to run for their flanking position. JD fires (finishing the full round action), but misses as the thug dives behind the Jeep. Uttering a curse under his breath, he starts lining the thug up once more (starts another full round action). (2nd round) The thugs, realising the threat that the two flankers present to them, switch their fire to the new threat, and one of the flankers goes down as several bullets strike home. The two supporting team mates, seeing the thugs turn their attention towards the flankers, switch from autofire to bursts, and manage to get another thug. The surviving flanker drops and rolls, turning his MP5 towards the exposed thugs, and lets loose a burst that claims another. JD fires once more, and this time the thug’s luck deserts him, as the round smacks home, dropping him. He then switches targets and starts lining up the only surviving thug. (3rd round) The surviving thug, seeing he has no chance at all, drops his weapon, and raises his hands in surrender. The team mates start to move in, readying actions to shoot the thug if he as much as removes his hands from his head. JD eases his finger from the trigger slightly, aborting his shot, but readies an action as well to fire if the thug tries anything.

 

[Bagpuss]

Okay this is getting confusing with your lovely discription...

I'll try to break it down talking just actions and feats, so using your feat discribed above.

Theres two options.

Before combat...
Dead Aim.
One Shot, One Kill - shot goes off.

Combat begins
No surprise round as a shot has been fired so everyone is aware of attack, all parties roll for initiative.

1st full round - The the party and villians act on initivative, Sniper does - one shot, one kill on his intiative.

In this method the party lose the supprise round so the sniper can have a single attack at +1 dice damage. Not great.

Or.

Before combat.
Dead Aim.
Surpise round - Sniper rolls for initiative begins one shot one kill. No one else acts, players are waiting on the sniper, party ready an attack action (triggered by the sniper's shot).

1st full round - Snipers completes one shot one kill and shot is fired, he begins one shot one kill again. Rest of the party fire on their ready action (for some weird reason this occurs before the shot has been fired even though it is the shot that triggers their action (hmm this must be WotC weird Magic:the Gathering timing leaking into D20). Villians join the battle rolling for initiative. If they roll higher than the party they have to wait till next round, if they roll lower they act this round.

This method the party gets a single attack, while the villans get a full round action. Not even worse.

Or
Before Combat
Dead Aim
Sniper begins One Shot, One Kill.

Surprise round - Party rolls initiative, those that roll higher than the sniper ready an action to attack on his shot going off. Those that roll lower just go when he goes. All the party fire on the villans. Snipers completes one shot, one kill and fires shot. But then the weird acting before the thing that triggers the action thing happens again, and before his shot fires the party members that readied attack.

1st round - Villans roll initiative. Party acts on their existing initiative.

Seems the best solution.

Still think the feat is a little weak, I would remove the -2 for making it a full round action for a single attack. Otherwise its really rubbish once you get to higher levels with multiple attacks.