[d20 Modern] Test-drive my GI Joe Ninja class...

[Corporate Dog]

Hmmm... not sure whether this belonged in the d20 Modern forum, or the House Rules forum, but I'm sure a nice moderator will come along and move me if I'm in the wrong place.

I'm throwing together some rules for doing GI Joe with d20 Modern, and my first effort has been a new Ninja advanced class...

http://davesanborn.com/ninja.pdf

This is my first real experience at doing ANYTHING with d20 Modern, and I'm looking for a little constructive feedback.

Just to put the class in context, I'm sticking with the 6 basic classes, reusing the advanced classes in the d20 Modern ruleset that fit the setting, and creating a few new ones. My list of advanced classes looks something like this...

- Soldier (as it appears in the core rulebook)

- Martial Artist (as it appears in the core rulebook; characters with martial arts training who AREN'T ninja could still multiclass into this)

- Field Medic (as it appears in the core rulebook)

- Intelligence Agent (new class; passing resemblance to Infiltrator class, albeit, with more Charisma-based special abilities)

- Armorer (revamp of Techie; same basic abilities, minus the robot creation)

- Saboteur (new class; sort of an "anti-Techie"; special abilities focused on demolition, finding chinks in armor, and adding penalties to opponents' equipment)

- Specialist (new class; passing resemblance to Field Scientist class; a catch-all class for science and computer-based experts)

- Commander (new class; Charisma-based abilities focused on granting "buffs" to other party members)

- Ninja

I wanted the Ninja's martial arts to be different enough from the Martial Artist's martial arts that it makes sense to have it as a separate class, and NOT just something you could hobble together from a Martial Artist and an Infiltrator. I THINK I accomplished this... at higher levels, my Ninja class generally does slightly less damage in an unarmed strike than a Martial Artist with similar attributes, but it also tends to get critical strikes more often.

I also tried to model my Ninja class after the ninja that we see in GI Joe and not necessarily ninja from history or other sources. So if there's an imbalance between stealth and combat (and there is) it's going to lean towards combat.

Let me know what you think. Where's it broken? Is it too munchkin-esque? Too underpowered? Does it need more ability to flip out, kill people, and wail on guitars? I'm all ears.

Regards,
Corporate Dog

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Making it a PDF is a barrier. My computer can't open PDFs online; I have to download it. I'm not even sure why I'm saving it, but anyway...

Don't call it a ninja. Call it a Cobra Ninja, or GI Joe Ninja, or (villains in GI Joe) Ninja. That will keep people from freaking out

Although there's an AdC in Future that has an Occupation as a requirement, that is not a good thing. One ninja could have Military, another Criminal, yet another Athlete, and so forth. This doesn't mean the Ninja Clan occupation is bad, just that the AdC should be more flexible in terms of requirements.

Other than that, the requirements look good. It is, of course, not easy to take without selecting a few of the occupations, though, but that's not too harsh, it just means you may have to wait a few more levels. (Must check to see if Criminal is a valid occupation.)

He should have Knowledge (current events) and Knowledge (streetwise) as class skills. If you're going to assassinate someone, you should at least know the political situation in that country, and what killing them might do. Streetwise is fairly obvious, IMO. You probably also want to add Bluff... makes it easy to use "Ninja Hand Movement" (what is the Japanese term for that), also known as Improved Feint in plain English

Generally speaking, the only abilities granted at level 3, 6, and 9 are bonus feats. Since you have 10 "letters" what you did was okay, but you could just grant two abilities on some of the levels instead.

Each ability should be clear on what it does right away. You shouldn't have an ability called Sho, it should be called Sho Healing or something to that effect. That makes it easier on those of us who don't understand Japanese.

Pyo is probably overpowered; I suppose it's more balanced because you're not increasing unarmed damage the way the martial artist class does, but it still makes me uneasy.

To is definitely overpowered; only one class in the core book has this ability, and it's base class Defense bonus is the lowest possible, rather than the highest possible, and it's designed to work with a class that already has a low Defense bonus. In other words, it's filling in a gap, not adding more power.

As someone who has played a Fast/Martial Artist I can tell you that they get high Defense bonuses without armor or any other kind of help. Unlike in DnD, D20 Modern characters already learn to dodge.

Based on the flavor text, I wonder if this couldn't grant a bonus to Listen and Spot or just give you Uncanny Dodge... I think those abilities would be more balanced. Because of the Kai ability, I would go for the latter.

Zai: the part of the full-round action isn't really necessary. By that level you'll have enough Tumble skillz (tm) to get out of the area anyway, and see the withdraw action.

PS why the split in Ninja Weapons Proficiencies? Why not let each just grant you 5 or so proficiencies?

The combo of decent BAB, decent class Defense, decent saves, and decent hit points and skills looks good to me.

Does it need more ability to flip out, kill people, and wail on guitars? I'm all ears.

Nah... but it does need to be able to cut open a tank with a katana

 

[utb1528]

I love GI Joe and the classes.

You should add the the ability to suppress the character's breathing and appear dead.

 

[Corporate Dog]

Making it a PDF is a barrier. My computer can't open PDFs online; I have to download it. I'm not even sure why I'm saving it, but anyway...

At some point I'll put out an HTML version, but in the meantime, I appreciate the download on your part.

Honestly, I thought I was doing people a favor by putting it into the PDF format.

Don't call it a ninja. Call it a Cobra Ninja, or GI Joe Ninja, or (villains in GI Joe) Ninja. That will keep people from freaking out

Yeah, I was trying to find SOME sort of descriptor I could put out in front of the word 'Ninja' that would fit the setting, but didn't have much luck. Eventually, it'll be part of a larger publication/website, so the vagueness will probably be offset at least a little, but until then... 'Clan Ninja', maybe?

Although there's an AdC in Future that has an Occupation as a requirement, that is not a good thing. One ninja could have Military, another Criminal, yet another Athlete, and so forth. This doesn't mean the Ninja Clan occupation is bad, just that the AdC should be more flexible in terms of requirements.

I DEFINITELY see your point here. At first, I had 'Ninja Clan' as an initial feat that had to be taken at character creation, but as there weren't any such feats in the core rulebook, I thought I should probably use an occupation instead.

I now see that Urban Arcana has a few, so the precident's been set. I'll change it.

He should have Knowledge (current events) and Knowledge (streetwise) as class skills. If you're going to assassinate someone, you should at least know the political situation in that country, and what killing them might do. Streetwise is fairly obvious, IMO. You probably also want to add Bluff... makes it easy to use "Ninja Hand Movement" (what is the Japanese term for that), also known as Improved Feint in plain English

I'll think about these. The ninja in GI Joe have always seemed a little focused on the past to me. And when it comes to political situations in the aftermath of an assassination, they tend to either follow their orders (this IS a military setting, after all) or let their "ninja wisdom" guide them.

Bluff is a good addition, though.

Generally speaking, the only abilities granted at level 3, 6, and 9 are bonus feats. Since you have 10 "letters" what you did was okay, but you could just grant two abilities on some of the levels instead.

That's not a bad idea at all, as I can see some logical pairings in the special abilities.

Each ability should be clear on what it does right away. You shouldn't have an ability called Sho, it should be called Sho Healing or something to that effect. That makes it easier on those of us who don't understand Japanese.

Good point. Even I find myself having to go back to my own class write-up from time to time to ask questions like, "What the hell is Retsu again?"

Pyo is probably overpowered; I suppose it's more balanced because you're not increasing unarmed damage the way the martial artist class does, but it still makes me uneasy.

Heh... at first I went with a Wis bonus, and then added a +1 progression every other level. That was CLEARLY overpowered.

Any suggestions on what I could do with this ability? I'm tempted to keep it, as I'm not sure what else I could do, short of aping the Martial Artist.

To is definitely overpowered; only one class in the core book has this ability, and it's base class Defense bonus is the lowest possible, rather than the highest possible, and it's designed to work with a class that already has a low Defense bonus. In other words, it's filling in a gap, not adding more power.

As someone who has played a Fast/Martial Artist I can tell you that they get high Defense bonuses without armor or any other kind of help. Unlike in DnD, D20 Modern characters already learn to dodge.

Based on the flavor text, I wonder if this couldn't grant a bonus to Listen and Spot or just give you Uncanny Dodge... I think those abilities would be more balanced. Because of the Kai ability, I would go for the latter.

I like the idea of changing the ability to an Uncanny Dodge as well.

Zai: the part of the full-round action isn't really necessary. By that level you'll have enough Tumble skillz (tm) to get out of the area anyway, and see the withdraw action.

I got sloppy on that last one, and didn't even CONSIDER the effects of the Tumble skill. Consider it gone.

PS why the split in Ninja Weapons Proficiencies? Why not let each just grant you 5 or so proficiencies?

Heh... this was my attempt at balancing the proficiency.

Normally, you need to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency once for each of the weapons in the list (plus Archaic Weapon Proficiency for the compound bow and shuriken). I felt that to just GIVE a ninja all of these proficiencies at once sort of circumvented the rules.

So I split it up: at the first progression, you have more familiarity with these weapons than the average guy, but you aren't completely skilled with any of them yet. At the second progression (which you can enter into at about the same time you become a ninja) you HAVE attained enough skill with these weapons to use them competently. And at the third progression, you can use these weapons in a deadlier fashion.

Is it really that strange? I saw it as sort of logical.

At any rate, thanks for your input! I'll be putting it to good use.

Regards,
Corporate Dog

 

[Corporate Dog]

I love GI Joe and the classes.

Thanks! The classes went through a couple of iterations, but I think I finally found a list that can reflect practically any Joe or Cobra character (usually with some multi-classing involved).

EDIT: Ack... and looking back at my list, I forgot one that's ABSOLUTELY VITAL to GI Joe: the Vehicle Operator.

You should add the the ability to suppress the character's breathing and appear dead.

I considered it, as it's factored pretty highly into Stormshadow's character over the years.

Ultimately, I couldn't find a satisfying way to make it fit the Kuji-No-In (which, by the way, I took from an excellent issue of the old Marvel Joe series called 'The Tenth Letter', and augmented with some internet research).

Ooh! Wait... since I'm changing the Ninja Clan starting occupation to a starting feat, I need to give it SOME sort of oomph. The ninja hibernation trance seems like it would be a REALLY good ability to grant in that feat.

Regards,
Corporate Dog