D20 products with rule variations?

[Aus_Snow]

Just as a side note - hit points are not an expanding ability to soak up damage; they represent defensive capability, luck, experience, divine favour, fatigue and all number of other things.

Yes and no, in my opinion.

After all, there are many rules in D&D that depend on "black and white" terms of attacking/not attacking, hitting/not hitting, taking damage/not taking damage etc., etc. Do these triggers/indicators then not mean what the rules specifically state that they mean, and when should they therefore act as triggers or indicators, other than when they are "supposed" to?

That is where this point (which is of course otherwise perfectly sound):

d20 is an abstract combat system, and hit points are an abstract measure of "how much more of this you can do before you die".

. . . falls down, IMO. It is and it isn't an abstract combat system, in ways that are in fact contradictory, depending on whether you look at the mechanics and the rules surrounding them, or at the descriptions of the intended "meaning" or "spirit" of said mechanics and rules.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think the abstraction of hps {and other mechanics in this game} has been confused by many people, some of which happen to work at and publish from WOTC.

Consider it this way... DnD presents an mechanic and ruleset that provides the framework in an abstract way for the narration of the game.

What happens mechanically, whether being 'hit' or not does not correlate into a narrative 'hit' but counts for the rules and abilities that trigger on a successful 'hit'.

Same with classes. The mechanics of Ranger are not implicitly tied to a narrative 'ranger'. etc...

But.. we are digressing rather far off topic

 

[Goken100]

I think the abstraction of hps {and other mechanics in this game} has been confused by many people, some of which happen to work at and publish from WOTC.

Consider it this way... DnD presents an mechanic and ruleset that provides the framework in an abstract way for the narration of the game.

What happens mechanically, whether being 'hit' or not does not correlate into a narrative 'hit' but counts for the rules and abilities that trigger on a successful 'hit'.

Same with classes. The mechanics of Ranger are not implicitly tied to a narrative 'ranger'. etc...

But.. we are digressing rather far off topic

Indeed you're correct about HP and their original intention. You also hit upon something key when you say that WOTC are confusing the abstract of HP.

It is in fact the case that almost since the beginning of role playing, the game has outgrown the need for a simplified abstract. HP were originally used in war games and simulations with many units on the battlefield and a handful of values representing each combatant. It is due to habit and the appeal of getting harder to kill in the most obvious way that it has continued. Try out some of the rules suggested above, and one can see that the simplicity of the simulation is comparable enough to indicate that increasing HP is not strictly necessary.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Try out some of the rules suggested above, and one can see that the simplicity of the simulation is comparable enough to indicate that increasing HP is not strictly necessary.

Completely agreed, I have Ken Hood's G-n-G simplified variant on my hard drive, its basically the CP2020 wound track, one of the simplist and most elegant wound systems I know.
However, in simplifying that aspect the entire game structure has to be tweaked, everything from Cure X spells to how Natural Armor and DR work. It can get a bit nasty when you encounter a corner case rule that is not already figured out.

I am currently working with Morris in proof-reading his Advanced Grappling, and the hardest part isn't the rules, its making sure the rules mesh will all the other mechanical structure out there

Ah, the joys of tweaking rules!

 

[Goken100]

cure light... broken rules

That reminds me. If HP represent how well I can take a punch and move with the damage, etc, then why IN THE WORLD does a cure spell not cure my level 10 butt as well as it does a level 1 gimp? Just cause I can roll with the punches it takes ten times the magical power to take me from death's door to completely hale? Explain that one!