d20 Races: Balance

[pawsplay]

If one of the core races for your d20 FRPG had "unbalanced ability scores," would you think a LA is mandatory? How far do you think that could go before you had problems? How about a +10 Str Large race with a slow movement rate and penalty to save vs. enchantments? Have you ever been tempted to pare down a race from your original conception to make them +0 LA?

LA is great for balancing unusual characters, but to me it seems to be an inelegant way to handle what are supposed to be common character types. I'm reluctant to include a LA, but I'm also reluctant to hand out superhuman ability scores for free.

Tackling this from another angle: do you think +4 Str and Large size would be sufficient for a massively powerful playable race? On the one hand, that's the Str of an orc in D&D. On the other hand, Large size doubles the weight you can handle. Very high Str scores, with Large weapons, is pretty scary, so I've been inclined to keep Str scores as low as possible. Should I split the difference (+6)? If so, do I still need to think seriously about a LA?

 

[Southern Oracle]

Using the guidelines in Savage Species, unbalanced ability scores are a justification for +1 LA. Being Large is also +1 LA, as you gain reach if you're a biped. Without knowing specifics about the race in question, I can't make recommendations on how to bring down to +0 LA, but I can point out some ways it's been done.

First, you can break the race down into a class itself...there are some examples of LA adjustment races given this treatment on the Wizards of the Coast website at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a .

Second, you can create some limiting factors like the Eberron designers did for the war-forged (the new race featured in the latest issue of Dragon magazine). Even though the war-forged are technically constructs, they lack some of the construct characteristics because they're alive and sentient.

Third, if you have access to Unearthed Arcana, you can follow the rules for allowing players to "buy off" their LA adjustments, effectively making them +0 LA at a future point in their advancement (how soon depends on how large the LA is to begin with).

If you can elaborate on the race in question, I might be able to make some more suggestions...in the meantime, I hope some of the above helps.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I agree, I find LA to be a clunky and inelegant method that doesn't sit well with me. The Arcana Unearthed racial levels work better for me, although the concept is a little strange. Think there was something similar in Savage Species, I've never read the book, but have seen people talking about it.

I'd say, given my 3.5 experience the size large bit is the really powerful thing... larger weapons and the reach is a really killer combination. Especially if you can get enlarged further, abuse spiked chains, etc.

If 'balance' is the important issue, I find a +4 to a stat is really 'pushing it' for a +0 LA (Orcs are the only ones I can think of, are a very powerful combat race, offset by the RPG side of 'being an orc' IMC)... I certainly wouldn't make it any higher and expect everything to be balanced for a 'regular' game.

If it works for your game though, then I'd say 'go with it!'

 

[arwink]

Would I think LA is mandatory in a home campaign - no, not entirely. It may serve as a guideline for the players, but at the same time I know that any non-stat penalties I was going to appy would be enforced, and I could make sure they were sufficient to balance out the stat bonuses (For example - playing an ogre in a interaction intensive, social adventure in a setting where humans aren't likely to treat him favorably, always being the first person attacked because he's the most obviously dangerous, charging a fortune for his large weapons and other assorted 2e-isms that worked if your enforced them but were far to easy to ignore).

This doesn't work in a published setting, because one persons idea of a non-stat flaw tends to be the ignored rule of the next person

 

[Derulbaskul]

Dawnforge uses an interesting mechanic to balance the various races including the two Large races, minotaurs and ogres: every race gains special abilities over the first 10 levels of advancement. The races are each more powerful than standard but it does make it easier to include races that would otherwise have a level penalty.

The example for the minotaur can be found here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/dfsupport.html

 

[Bihor]

the moment you do some roleplaying, being something esle than a civilized humaniod is a mager drawback.

In a standard DnD world no ogre can enter in a town. Every thing cost double when you're large. you are not premited to enter most building, sleeping in the barn.
The moment you don't fight you almost become usless.

It was a drawback in Dark Sun for playing a half-giant, not many players in my campagne wated to play one becuse of that.

 

[pawsplay]

Right now, these things are +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha, Large, slow (20 ft movement), +2 natural armor, and take a penalty on Jump. Their favored class is Druid. They have problems finding equipment In the few civilized areas they live, they're considered a slave race, but mostly, they are known for being savages.

Originally I had their Str at +10, by comparison to similarly sized Ogres, but since then I've been pondering that. Races in Star Wars have nothing like that kind of bonus. Ogres are, well, pretty monstrous. A Large character with a 14 Str can left 350 pounds over his head which is a lot. I noticed that horses have Str in the 14-16 range, but then I remembered that quadrupeds can carry more. They're supposed to be remnants of a race created through magic to serve as drudge labor.

 

[Spatula]

Well, the +2 Con -2 Cha cancel out, going by the precedent of the dwarf. So this race gets an unanswered +4 to Strength, a stat that is considered to be worth more than most. That right there would be a +1 LA, in my estimation, before even considering the Large size.

What about penalties to Dexterity and/or Intelligence?

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Right now, these things are +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha, Large, slow (20 ft movement), +2 natural armor, and take a penalty on Jump. Their favored class is Druid.

When balancing races, always work up examples using the most effective build. For the above race, I'd create a barbarian or barbarian/fighter (keeping the levels even to avoid xp penalties). As a barbarian, he gains fast movement, so he's no longer slow. He'll also stick to light armor, which means the cost and difficulty of finding armor is minimized (which the +2 natural armor helps with anyway). Add in a Large greataxe or greatsword and you have a killing machine on your hands, even before raging.

Or to put it another way: if this race is a no-brainer choice for certain classes, it's too good. Right now, it's way, way too good as a tank.

Also, don't count on roleplaying penalties to balance mechanical bonuses. If the penalties really are severe, it will make playing the race no fun for the player (and the party). If they're not severe, then it's not really a penalty and the race isn't balanced.

 

[Erratic K]

I agree, I find LA to be a clunky and inelegant method that doesn't sit well with me. The Arcana Unearthed racial levels work better for me, although the concept is a little strange. Think there was something similar in Savage Species, I've never read the book, but have seen people talking about it.

I have savage species and it has sample monster classes and what not. It is close to racial levels (except that a creature has monster classes = to it's ECL and it can't multiclass until it attains max level in it's class. Compared to racial levels, it is quite dismal.

Racial Levels are so elegant and awesome for this type of thing. Basically they are levels that don't count against multi-classing (like prestige classes) and can only be taken by characters of that race (or related like half-elves or half-orcs can take human or elf, or human or orc).

You can see what they are like here:

http://www.montecook.com/images/Racial_levels.pdf

these are some extrapolations on the players handbook racial levels. The one that is most relevant to this is the Giant in Arcana Unearthed (closed content and can't find a relevant link- sorry).

Similar stuff from Sean Reynolds that follows the Monster class deal here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

Basically a racial level from Monte has a Players hand book +0 LA race and then a 3 level progression only open to characters of that race (or half that race).

For you thing I would do:

"Big Guy" Racial Traits (or whatever you call your race)- all Big Guys get these:

+2 Str, -2 Cha, 20' move, -2 racial penalty to Jump.
Darkvision, +2 racial bonus to Survival Checks (or wilderness lore whatever)

Big Guy levels (Benefits to any Big Guy who takes a level in Big Guy):
HD: d8
Skill points: (2+int) x 4 at 1st level, 2+ Int bonus after
Class skills: like druid
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Druid list (or maybe simple and light)

1st level: +1 Str, +0 BAB, +2 Nat Armor, F/R/W: +2/+0/+0
2nd level: +1 Con, +1 level of existing Divine Spell caster, +1 BAB, F/R/W: +3/+0/+1
3rd level: +1 Str, +1 Con, Large, +2 BAB F/R/W: +3/+1/+1

You could mess with things, but it would bump it up in strength to be better than the sample Giant in AU.

This would get you close as you noted:
Right now, these things are +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha, Large, slow (20 ft movement), +2 natural armor, and take a penalty on Jump. Their favored class is Druid.

Anyway, check out racial levels etc...

-E