d20 Runequest

[kobold]

this gets a little long

Kengar - I found a great GURPS conversion on the web I'd be happy to share.
mmadsen- Mostly our problem was with the loose rules. I loved them but it was a hard concept for my group to grasp. I personaly was disappointed with the vague magic rules. I'd give it another shot but don't think my group would. If I could find an existing group of HW players I'd love to sit in, I don't think I was using the rules effectivly, so it's failure to impress my group probably has a lot to do with my refing and not the rules. I understand there is going to be a re-write of the rules released this summer that should clear up the very poorly writen rules of the original and will change the way magic works. I'll buy it and with luck can convince my group to give it another try.

The original Chaosium stuff was the best stuff printed at the time, and the current non-rules material for Hero Wars is fantastic.

Personally I think the Prestige Class concept has been misinterpreted and abused, but this is a world that is ready for them. MOre often though I think the various ranks of cult worshippers could be handled by making special feats avaiable only to say devotees of Humakt.

 

[Monte Carlo]

I am a massive RQ (pre-AH) fan.

As I understand it, Greg Stafford has utterly no interest whatsoever in making d20 RQ. He is happy with his cottage industry Issaries/Hero Wars.

Which, in my view, is a shame. But more power to him for his principles.

A d20 Glorantha is possible IMO. Start all players as Fighters, Rogues or Barbarians (I'd also invent a townsman/bourgoisie class for Lunars and the like, possibly based on the 3E NPC classes). Make battle magic a combination of feats and quasi-prestige classes and make cults a combo of multi-classing and prestige classes. Totally do-able as far as I can see.

For Orlanth!

Cheers
MC

 

[Maldur]

unfortunately, Greg Staford is the greatest danger for Glorantha's publishing future.

Herowars is very good, but the learning curve is very steep!

And using d20 as a vehicle for new blood (among glorantha fans), and for the generation of cash to do more Glorantha is a big no-no!

Its a shame ( until then Ill just have to stay in touch with all the fan-based stuff out there. Luckily Im well versed in the ins and outs of Glorantha)


For a conversion:

Spirit or battle magic uses items ( foci) and cost time and money to capture and bind the spirit. In effect they are magic items, albeit in a different form!

 

[JeffB]

I also am a huge RQ/Glorantha fan…the second Edition game.

While the Third Edtion produced by Avalon Hill (but written by Chaosium w/ AH “Guidance”) had a few improvements (mostly with Character Generation and closing up a few loopholes), it mostly complicated the game unnecessarily. The Sorcery Rules in particular were very complicated and everyone and their mother spawned a new version (including Chaosium staff). IMO< the Second edition game and it’ boxed supplements set a standard that still is unequalled by many products of today…Cults of Prax…Pavis…TrollPak.. (perhaps WOTC and some of the D20 guys should look at it to see how to do “no-standard” race supplements)… …Basically AH shot themselves in the foot by dis-associating Glorantha from RQ. Glorantha was the reason most people loved RQ…yeah the rules were excellent for the most part, but Glorantha was the big draw. By the time the Glorantha Re-birth of the early 90’s came about, the system was already dead…

I like HeroWars…I don’t think the learning curve is bad at all, much easier than 3E for example… the game is extremely rules-light it’s just a different approach: Instead of saying “Here are the rules/explanations..use them as best you can with your imagination”, it says: “Use your imagination, and apply whatever you come up with to this basic mechanic”……. However, there are a couple of important subsystems that are poorly explained, and the books have quite a few errors. The new HeroQuest rules (replacing the name HeroWars but just updating/clarifying) should be a huge improvement. That being said I feel HeroWars has the best character generation system out there…and overall I prefer it’s “free form, narrative/descriptive” rules-set over any other.

As far as AH/WOTC. Avalon Hill owns the rights to the Runequest name, And Greg Stafford got Glorantha back.. and there’s some more complicated stuff involving using the BRP rules in Gloranthan setting (using the spell names, etc), enough of a complication that Issaries came up with a new game. AH did have a RuneQuest:Slayers game announced, but it never saw print..awhile back RPG.net had a review on the game..apparently the designers published the RQ:Slayers rules on their website..I downloaded it..it was interesting, but nothing like the BRP/RQ system, and nothing I would want to ever run…

Now to the crux of the matter…IMO Glorantha is so much of a deviation from the theory and premise of D&D /D20 that it would be nigh possible to create a fully workable game that was true to the spirit of Glorantha….yes..parts of Glorantha the world can be ported over…but otherwise I don’t think the effort would be worth it or in the end, actually work..…RQ/Glorantha is a just totally different mind-set….I think a setting like Barsaive which is every bit as fresh as Glorantha could be ported over with some work, but the general premise of Earthdawn is more closely aligned to D&D.

Glorantha (as well as a few other settings) is simply a creation that has to have it’s rules built around the setting…It’s one thing to port a Swords & Sorcery type genre to D20, but Glorantha is totally different…I’m not sure the effort will prove worthwhile, if it’s even possible…

 

[ninthcouncil]

I don't agree that it is impossible to reproduce the feel of RQ Glorantha using d20, but it would require some work. Particularly, higher level divine magic would need to be restricted to prestige classes, varying by religion (good God - I think this might be an application which uses PrC's the way they were actually intended!).

A mechanism for non-magic classes to obtain access to lower level spells ("spirit magic") could be based on Skill Points, and one-use Divine Magic could be bought with XPs. In fact, the previous purchase of One-Use Divine spells is a useful pre-requisite for those PrCs which give the Reusable stuff.....

It's not impossible - in fact, it's very do-able. The main worry I would have is that d20 characters tend to get powerful more quickly than a Gloranthan model would suggest - in RQ, it's at Rune Level that things really start to rock, and I'd say that is at least 10th in terms of effort required.

I had been giving the matter some thought recently, but decided I'd already got too full a plate, and put it to one side. Pick up the ball and run with it, someone; there's plenty of us out here who loved RQ Glorantha but find that the Hero Wars system just doesn't click with us.

 

[radferth]

a poor start

I too used to play RQ, using 3rd ed RG rules, set in Glorantha. I liked the RQ rules OK, but it seemed to me that (in my group at least) there ended up being a lot of number-crunching metagamesmanship going on.

In any case I made a poor start at making some d20 rules for glorantha. I thought about going classless (things like skills, saves and BAB are developed separately), but decided it was a lot of work for little payoff. I had posted some of what I came up with to a website, but have since lost track of the site. (I really should find it again). Some of the base concepts I remember are:

Things that result in POW gain or loss in RQ are XP gain or loss in d20.
Rune priest and rune lord are prestige classes, which have the major benefit of an allied spirit, which gives and extra spellcasting action per round.
I jerry-rigged a point-based spellcasting system, but decided it was no good.

Basically, all one needs is a mechanic for Spirit Magic, and d20 can work fine for a Gloranthan campaign. It won't be the same as an RQ game, but it should work. I guess I would suggest get rid of the spellcasting core classes. Come up with a spirit magic system that all can use (through feats). I would use some sort of broad class system like CoC, with just 3 or 4 base classes. A combat specialist (based on fighter, d8 hp, 4 skl pt), and skill specialist (based on rogue, d6 hp, 8 skl pt) and a magic specialist (good question, d6 hp, 4 skl pt). I would probably allow mostly free skill sselection, and free multiclassing. Of course, in keeping with the setting, one will require a fair amount of magic skill for any decent prestige classes (shaman, rune priest, etc). One might need to grant more feats, and convert some specific class abilities into feats.

Let me know at danlemaster@earthlink.net if you want to hear when I get this reworked.

 

[trancejeremy]

Early BRP and d20 are actually very very similar. Almost identical, in many aspects. I don't have the first version of Runequest, but I do have the first version of Stormbringer, which apparently uses the same rules.

Same basic stats, all from 3 to 18 or so. Only there is a Size stat and Wisdom is renamed "Power".

Hit points are fixed (average of Size and Con). Instead of an armor class, there are two defensive skills - either parry (also seen in Never Winter Nights) and Dodge. Or using a shield. (Alternatively, just use the WP/VP system from d20 Star Wars.)

Skills work more or less the same. In early versions of BRP (this changed in later versions), each skill was associated with an attribute or two, and got a bonus. 1% for every point above 12.

So, quite honestly, I don't see the big deal in converting to d20. The magic system might be a bit tricky, but that's about it.

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

From: trancejeremy

"I do have the first version of Stormbringer, which apparently uses the same rules"

Almost, but not quite. Stormbringer is BRP based, and very similar to RQ (2ed). However, there were distinct differences.

From: JeffB

"IMO< the Second edition game and it’ boxed supplements set a standard that still is unequalled by many products of today"

Amen brother. I still long to see a campaign supplement the equal of the original Griffin Mountain for cost, multi level play and background.

RQ was the first game I played and I was still playing it three years ago when DnD 3e seduced me into this fold. AH destroyed RQ.

The massive prevalence of magic in Glorantha may not be as bad as people think - Greg Stafford has been reported as saying that spirit magic ended up being way more common and available in the game than he invisaged in his original creation of the world (for historical reference Glorantha the world predates both RQ and Dnd, any edition).

If someone wanted to get a conversion project going, I'd be in like a shot. I'm already toying with a conversion of the CUlt of Thanatar for my current campaign.

Anyway, I'll stop now before I really wax lyrical.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Runequest was one of the early RPGs out there that provided a real alternative to D&D, and an interesting one at that. It seemed like it was one of the few games where, when they said that the system and the setting went hand-in-hand, they weren't kidding. RQ's system was what is now known as Chaosium's BRP system, as far as I know. I never saw an early version of RQ; I have a much later, deluxe edition that Avalon Hill released.

Colonel, I wish you could get hold of the 2nd edition RQ rules - they were the best role playing rules that I've ever used, the most fun and flexible by far. BRP is a poor shadow of 2eRQ as too many good things were "simplified" which didn't need simplifying. For one example that sprang to mind, they replaced the concept of "defence" with "dodge", which was an entirely different mechanic.

RQ was such an extensible system that we used it to run an entire sci-fi RPG (the rules which metamorphosed into "Starguild the RPG" on my website). We also did a conversion for Dark Sun (and 2eRQ seemed to fit that much better and 2eD&D!) - I have the basic stats on my website for that too I also did some work on an Empire of the Petal Throne conversion to use RQ rules, although when the WWW appeared I found that Sandy Peterson had already done that, so I abandoned work on it.

Sorry for waxing so lyrical about 2eRQ. I was so sad when AH destroyed it with their 3rd edition. Ironically they moved away from an adventure rich world (glorantha) at about the same time that TSR were recognising the need for an adventure rich world (Forgotten realms)!

Ah, C'est la vie!

Cheers

 

[sword-dancer]

Re: this gets a little long

Kengar - I found a great GURPS conversion on the web I'd be happy to share.
.

If you could post the adress or send me the adress please
to

thdannewitz@freenet.de

please give your mail a name lik RQ-GURPS, on another boards adresses somebody sent viruses out in the last time.

THANKS