[d20F] Dawning Star Preview Available for Download [on hold]

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Way too American for my tastes...
American style government?
Um, you have noticed the rest of the world isn't exactly enchanted with your current capacity for government, right? What in your recent experience leads you to believe that is going to change and a group of survivors from everywhere on the planet will choose the American model of government, and not the British Parliamentary, EU, or UN models?

American Baseball?
You do realize that no one on Earth except you, some Canadians, the Japanese and the Cubans (ironically) actually like that game?

aliens speaking in "perfect" American English?
You understand that's an oxymoron, right? By definition American english is imperfect, being a deviation from the correct Queen's English?
That said, why would aliens even speak the Queen's English? By the numbers, you'd think they'd speak Mandarin? Do you really think any kind of English is still going to be the dominant language in 200 years?
I guess if someone had written a scifi story in 1804 the aliens visiting the earth in 2004 would have spoken perfect Latin or French, as those were considered the "cultured" international languages of the era.

Nisarg

Your points are generally valid, except that the explanation for the conclusions we made is offered in the background. To wit, the Dawning Star was comprised principally of Americans. No doubt, had one of the other transport ships with a greater number of other nationalities been the one that landed on Eos, things would have turned out far differently. In fact, one of our planned supplements is on some of the other transport ships, which will reflect those cultural differences.

If you're not interested in a setting that has a strong American influence, that's a matter of taste. I might dispute some of your more fiery rhetoric, but this thread's not really the place. At any rate, DS is internally consistent and not the product of mere jingoism.

 

[Nisarg]

Your points are generally valid, except that the explanation for the conclusions we made is offered in the background. To wit, the Dawning Star was comprised principally of Americans. No doubt, had one of the other transport ships with a greater number of other nationalities been the one that landed on Eos, things would have turned out far differently. In fact, one of our planned supplements is on some of the other transport ships, which will reflect those cultural differences.

If you're not interested in a setting that has a strong American influence, that's a matter of taste. I might dispute some of your more fiery rhetoric, but this thread's not really the place. At any rate, DS is internally consistent and not the product of mere jingoism.

I concede that its internally consistent, I just don't particularly care for sci fi that maintains a rampantly american perspective, internally justified or not, in particular if its sci fi set 200 years into the future (when, even if we posit the United States still exists as either a political body or a culture, said culture would be so changed as to be virtually unrecognizeable). It smacks of bad sci fi.
Some could say that the very choice of making the "majority of survivors" American would in and of itself be jingoistic.

But hey, from a practical perspective, you are probably thinking of a primarily american target market for this product; and the myth that contemporary american culture and values is somehow timeless and universal is something that tends to sell well in sci-fi in America.

Nisarg

 

[Wycen]

We discussed other cultures during developement as can be seen in the map in this thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=161272

As for football, you could always make it futbol. Or cricket or whatever you'd like.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Some could say that the very choice of making the "majority of survivors" American would in and of itself be jingoistic.

Just to clarify, it's not that the majority of the survivors are American; it's that the majority of the passengers on the Dawning Star were American. We reference other ships with different nationality ratios. I don't have my manuscript in front of me, but I believe we reference one ship with an inordinate number of French passengers, and one that is comprised principally of Chinese.

But hey, from a practical perspective, you are probably thinking of a primarily american target market for this product; and the myth that contemporary american culture and values is somehow timeless and universal is something that tends to sell well in sci-fi in America.

You are entirely correct on this count. We wanted to make the setting American-centric for commercial reasons, and we found -- in my mind, at least -- a perfectly viable, realistic, and creative method for doing so.

 

[Peterson]

I justed wanted to let you know that I am quite interested in this and I think it has real potential.

Thanks for offering such an in-depth and rules-free preview.

Peterson

 

[Nisarg]

We discussed other cultures during developement as can be seen in the map in this thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=161272

As for football, you could always make it futbol. Or cricket or whatever you'd like.

Whatever map was there appears not to be anymore.

And its a bit patronizing (or naive, I can't really figure which) to suggest that the issues regarding cultural imperialism can be remedied by changing football to futbol.

Finally, I still do not see it a "realistic" (internally consistent, sure, but not realistic) situation by which you explain how all the survivors of a 22nd century cataclysm end up being 20th century americans.. because what I'm saying is that so far I've seen nothing to indicate that the American culture has actually changed in any meaningful way in the 200 years leading up to the disaster; that's the bigger issue, that's what makes it jingoistic. Not the mere fact that its a "mostly american" ship but the idea that 20th Century American values are so absolute and all-powerful that they will survive without any significant change for 200 years, "and yea, American Values will verily survive even the destruction of the earth itself"... no, that doesn't seem jingoistic at all. :\

As for "there are other ships".. perhaps I'm unclear about something.. weren't all the other ships lost? Are you saying that you're planning to make other supplements when those ships are "found" again, or that you're going to have other settings altogether explaining where those other ships went?

Or do you just mean "hey, this minor supply ship that was along with the Dawning Star had a mostly chinese crew, so we'll be releasing the "Chinatown, Eos, USA" supplement"?

Nisarg

 

[Wycen]

And its a bit patronizing (or naive, I can't really figure which) to suggest that the issues regarding cultural imperialism can be remedied by changing football to futbol.

I was suggesting you use rule zero.

Finally, I still do not see it a "realistic" (internally consistent, sure, but not realistic) situation by which you explain how all the survivors of a 22nd century cataclysm end up being 20th century americans.. because what I'm saying is that so far I've seen nothing to indicate that the American culture has actually changed in any meaningful way in the 200 years leading up to the disaster; that's the bigger issue, that's what makes it jingoistic. Not the mere fact that its a "mostly american" ship but the idea that 20th Century American values are so absolute and all-powerful that they will survive without any significant change for 200 years, "and yea, American Values will verily survive even the destruction of the earth itself"... no, that doesn't seem jingoistic at all. :\


Nisarg

It may not be for you then.

 

[C. Baize]

As for "there are other ships".. perhaps I'm unclear about something.. weren't all the other ships lost? Are you saying that you're planning to make other supplements when those ships are "found" again, or that you're going to have other settings altogether explaining where those other ships went?

Or do you just mean "hey, this minor supply ship that was along with the Dawning Star had a mostly chinese crew, so we'll be releasing the "Chinatown, Eos, USA" supplement"?

Nisarg

When I read it, it seemed to me that the ships were all sent to different places. That doesn't preclude re-establishing contact.

As for all that jingoism crap... why do we have to bring anti-Americanism into this? It's a freakin' GAME. You can just as easily rule that they play cricket and soccer, and the Dawning Star was from your home country, and all the Americans stayed on Earth... Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

When I read it, it seemed to me that the ships were all sent to different places. That doesn't preclude re-establishing contact.

Mr. Baize has it quite correct. We have plans for developing supplement(s) as to where the other ships went and what their up to. And we leave open the possibility of another ship finding its way to Eos. No, they're not mere shuttles. There were 20 transport ships of equal stature to the Dawning Star, though of somewhat differing configuration.

Folks, don't worry too much about Nisarg's venom. He seems to have developed a distaste for me based upon an entirely unrelated thread on a different board. I suspect much of his criticism is founded on that animosity.

 

[Piratecat]

Nisarg, you're treading on the "no politics" line a bit; however you may feel about jingoism and international politics, this isn't the place to discuss it.