d8 Sneak Attack: Hear me out

[Krachek]

Feat killer’s instinct

Your sneak attack dice are now d8.
You can use your sneak attack once per turn provide you don’t have disadvantage. (As swashbuckler)
You can use sneak attack with any one handed weapon, including improvised one.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't have an issue with a D8 sneak attack when not dual-wielding. However I would not like to see it based on weapon die.
Partly because I allow any weapon to deliver a sneak attack, but mostly because I like to see weapons like daggers used.

I’d even go the other way, and incentivize incisive or “cruel” weapons like the dagger, sickle, handaxe, and even club, by making them do more damage with SA. I’d go with adding proficiency bonus 1/turn to an attack that qualifies for Sneak Attack, bc it’s more interesting than larger damage die, but making them deal 1d8 when used with a free hand on attacks that qualify for SA could be fun.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

For my own campaign, hand crossbows will not exist and rogues (and bards) will not get proficiency in the rapier. Plus, Khaalis's Light Armor Fighter variant will be an option. A player wanting to be a corsair, duelist, swashbuckler, two-handed roguish fighter or other light/no armor fighter can take that. The Rogue will be for Assassin's, Thieves, and Swindlers that sneak attack with daggers or shortswords

Why no swashbuckler rogues or bards?

 

[Greg K]

Why no swashbuckler rogues or bards?

For rogues, I don't like the subclass or using sneak attack with rapiers. Someone can take the Light Fighter with the Criminal or Urchin background. Bards will serve a different role as scholars and lorekeepers for certain cultures not the roguish spellcasting minstrel. The roguish minstrel (no spells) will be handled another way.

 

[CapnZapp]

Since I believe you could double the sneak attack damage (d6 every level instead of every other) and the Rogue would still only be reasonably balanced I feel you can do pretty much what you want with your suggestion.

 

[Blue]

Feat killer’s instinct

Your sneak attack dice are now d8.
You can use your sneak attack once per turn provide you don’t have disadvantage. (As swashbuckler)
You can use sneak attack with any one handed weapon, including improvised one.

Compared to other ASI/feats this doesn't cover the opportunity cost of not taking one of them. Looking primary in the tier 1 & 2 where most games are played - at quite high levels with more SA and less things to spend it on it could work.

 

[Blue]

I thought of a crazy way to incentivize going for a single rapier/light crossbow: what if your sneak attack damage was equal to your weapon's damage die?With a quick calculation, a rapier/light crossbow rogue would deal 81-92% of the damage a dual shortsword rogue will tend to deal (without factoring in advantage; the rapier rogue would benefit more from advantage since their first attack would be less likely to hit and thus be in less need of a follow-up attack). They're still dealing less damage, which would offer a trade off for having their bonus action free for other things.How do you think this would play out? How would you abuse it as a player?

I wouldn't want to increase the ranged sneak attack any more, be it light crossbow or longbow from elves proficiency. That's an already potent build.

I'd go the simpler: use D8 SA with melee weapon attacks if you have a hand free. Doesn't make daggers even more sub-optimal. Works with thrown.

 

[TarionzCousin]

For my own campaign, hand crossbows will not exist and rogues (and bards) will not get proficiency in the rapier. Plus, Khaalis's Light Armor Fighter variant will be an option.

I looked this up so I might as well link it here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?364670-5E-Fighter-Variant-Light-Fighter-(experiment)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Huh. I think we may have extremely different views on player agency to determine their own character concept.

 

[Greg K]

Huh. I think we may have extremely different views on player agency to determine their own character concept.

If that was in response to me, possibly. As DM, I build the setting and cosmology, therefore, I determine

• the available races
• the available cultures which includes such things are their subsistence patterns, political organization, the social stratification, Residence patterns, technology, religious beliefs and practices, methods of exchange/distribution, views on property ownership, views on crime and punishment, body adornment, naming customs)
• based on the above and other factors, I decide which official backgrounds, classes, class variants (e.g. the spell-less Ranger), and/or subclasses if any are available in each culture. I also includes certain third party material as additions or in place of official version material that may fit the campaign thematically, but does not work for me mechanically). This may change the starting equipment of a character.
• For clerics, I determine the deities, their domain(s), what the priesthoods are like (tenets, strictures, holy symbols, vestments, tailored spell lists)
  [* ] For magic, I may remove or alter spells from the PHB and include some spells from the PHB and third party sources. bits of current events,
• and I determine the major NPCs, organizations (guilds, colleges, orders), etc as well as bits of history and current events for each culture. In some settings, this will include people (if any) that can teach magic to wizards.

Now, it is not my job to change things to include a player's favorite race, class, subclass, or spell, or any concept that they may come up with. It is the player's job to work within the above guidelines and others that I set (e.g. no evil characters, no-pre-planned multi-classing build unless another character can train you in a new class and is willing to do so). The characters may choose to have alternate beliefs about how society is organized, ownership of property, how laws are enforced, rules on marriage. That is fine, maybe they were exiled for their beliefs depending upon the culture or left on their own.
The characters can have goals (that work within the nature of the setting and cosmology) including: becoming the greatest hero of their culture, overthrowing a tyrant, starting a revolution (for good ends), becoming the leader of their tribe, clan, collecting food recipes from different cultures and then establishing an inn, finding a lost relative or love, killing some monster terrorizing the homeland (such creatures will noted in the culture notes), becoming the head of a thieve's guild, start a magic school or guild. You can even switch character goals as the campaign progresses. As long as it is possible within the setting and does not involve being evil, I will work the players. However, as a player you need to have your player convince the others to go with you which may require you helping them first.