Daemons back in 4e

[Neuroglyph]

Just reviewed the Goodman Games - Critter Cache 5: Daemons on my blogsite yesterday. I am seriously becoming a fan of these guys.

I was pretty annoyed when they took Daemons out of play in 4e - it's nice to know I wasn't the only one looking to put them back in play.

 

[kilamanjaro]

My only complaints:
1. The back story for the creation of their plane is too much like the 4e Abyss. Just moved to the Astral Sea instead of the Elemental Chaos.
2. They trade for souls from the demons. In 4e demons don't collect souls.
I love the creatures though and can't wait to use them.

 

[Shemeska]

Outside of being named 'daemon' what do they have in common with the 1e/2e/3e 'loths?

 

[kilamanjaro]

Outside of being named 'daemon' what do they have in common with the 1e/2e/3e 'loths?

They serve as mercenaries for the demons and devils in exchange for souls, prolonging the conflict between them.

Otherwise not much. I get much more of an ancient Greek vibe from them myself.

 

[Neuroglyph]

Outside of being named 'daemon' what do they have in common with the 1e/2e/3e 'loths?

Well guessing from your screen name you're a pretty big fan of 3/3.5 Planescape campaigns, so I can empathize with your concern with how the author treated 'loths.

And while I wouldn't presume to speak for the author, having reviewed the work, I think he drew inspiration from the names of the planes that Daemons inhabited. I personally enjoyed how the author drew upon a myth structure, and worked all that into a storyline that could mesh with the current 4e cosmology, without being.

Clearly, he couldn't take the original daemons (or 'loths) and simply reproduce them - WotC I'm sure would take a dim view of that - but what he did do was re-envision daemons in their original place in the universe, so they could fit into the new cosmology.

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

Outside of being named 'daemon' what do they have in common with the 1e/2e/3e 'loths?

Not much, really. The daemons/yugoloths never made it into the OGL/SRD, so I couldn't use any of the old school daemons or any of the material from Planescape. What I did was reimagine them using imagery and naming conventions from ancient Greek myth, which is a bit closer to how they were presented in 1E.

Don't worry, Shemeska, I didn't muck about with the baernoloths and any of the established daemonic canon.

BD

 

[Shemeska]

Not much, really. The daemons/yugoloths never made it into the OGL/SRD, so I couldn't use any of the old school daemons or any of the material from Planescape. What I did was reimagine them using imagery and naming conventions from ancient Greek myth, which is a bit closer to how they were presented in 1E.

Well I don't really see any connection between their 1E incarnations and any ancient Greek myth, outside of Gygax using Hades and Tartares etc as the names for two planes they were native to - albeit my exposure to 1E material being pretty limited.

But, that said, I'm entirely with you on reimagining them since they aren't part of the OGL/SRD or GSL/(whatever the 4e SRD is). I did much of the work reimagining daemons in Pathfinder, so I can relate to the process.

 

[pawsplay]

I've never been happy with using the same word for multiple creatures; demon/daemon has to be the worst offender, the difference coming down to little more than a spelling preference.

 

[Nikosandros]

I've never been happy with using the same word for multiple creatures; demon/daemon has to be the worst offender, the difference coming down to little more than a spelling preference.

I see your point about the name, but daemons have always been intriguing creatures in D&D. As soon as I saw the introduction of the new term Yuogoloth in 2e, I switched to using it, so as to avoid the too similar name issue that you mentioned.

 

[Zaukrie]

I think this is one of, if not THE, best Critter Caches. Really good stuff in here.