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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Daggers are AWESOME!
- Thread starter Nifft
- Start date
AffableVagrant
First Post
OK, so here's the daggermaster challenge: post a badass PC who fights primarily with daggers. I suppose somewhere between level 7 and 12?
Convince me that daggers are actually cool in 3e!
Convince me that daggers are actually cool in 3e!
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Okay, some dagger builds. First just Core rules.
Halfling Rogue / Fighter, Core only, 25 point buy
Str 12 (14 -2 racial), Dex 15 (13 +2 racial), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
1/ Rogue 1 -- SA +1d6, TWF
2/ Fighter 1 -- Quickdraw
3/ Fighter 2 -- Weapon Focus (Dagger), Weapon Finesse
4/ Rogue 2 -- [Evasion], +1 Dex
5/ Fighter 3
6/ Fighter 4 -- Weapon Specialization (Dagger), Point Blank Shot
7/ Rogue 3 -- SA +2d6
8/ Fighter 5 -- +1 Dex
9/ Fighter 6 -- Rapid Shot, Improved TWF
At this point, you can make really quite a lot of attacks.
BAB +8/+3
Melee ITWF +6/+1 +6/+1
ITWF + Rapid Shot +4/+4/+4/-1/-1
- - -
Melee ITWF (+1 size, +1 WF, +3 Finesse = +5): +11/+11/+6/+6
Ranged (+1 size, +1 halfling, +1 WF, +3 Dex, +1 point blank = +7): +11/+11/+11/+6/+6
Melee Damage: 1d3 +1 (str) +2 (WS) ~= 5 hp, +2d6 SA
Ranged Damage: 1d3 +1 (str) +2 (WS) +1 (PBS) ~= 6 hp, +2d6 SA
The attack bonuses are comparable to what a 9th level Monk could get throwing shuriken. The damage is similar to what a TWF Ranger could get with his two shortswords.
How much gold do PCs get at 9th level in your campaign? I ask because a Ring of Blinking is 27k gp.
Next one will use PrCs and feats from other sources.
Cheers, -- N
Halfling Rogue / Fighter, Core only, 25 point buy
Str 12 (14 -2 racial), Dex 15 (13 +2 racial), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
1/ Rogue 1 -- SA +1d6, TWF
2/ Fighter 1 -- Quickdraw
3/ Fighter 2 -- Weapon Focus (Dagger), Weapon Finesse
4/ Rogue 2 -- [Evasion], +1 Dex
5/ Fighter 3
6/ Fighter 4 -- Weapon Specialization (Dagger), Point Blank Shot
7/ Rogue 3 -- SA +2d6
8/ Fighter 5 -- +1 Dex
9/ Fighter 6 -- Rapid Shot, Improved TWF
At this point, you can make really quite a lot of attacks.
BAB +8/+3
Melee ITWF +6/+1 +6/+1
ITWF + Rapid Shot +4/+4/+4/-1/-1
- - -
Melee ITWF (+1 size, +1 WF, +3 Finesse = +5): +11/+11/+6/+6
Ranged (+1 size, +1 halfling, +1 WF, +3 Dex, +1 point blank = +7): +11/+11/+11/+6/+6
Melee Damage: 1d3 +1 (str) +2 (WS) ~= 5 hp, +2d6 SA
Ranged Damage: 1d3 +1 (str) +2 (WS) +1 (PBS) ~= 6 hp, +2d6 SA
The attack bonuses are comparable to what a 9th level Monk could get throwing shuriken. The damage is similar to what a TWF Ranger could get with his two shortswords.
How much gold do PCs get at 9th level in your campaign? I ask because a Ring of Blinking is 27k gp.
Next one will use PrCs and feats from other sources.
Cheers, -- N
Last edited:
AffableVagrant
First Post
I'd say whatever the DMG says is standard. I think there are some rules about starting higher level PCs and how much wealth they are expected to have amassed by that point.
I want to add a little difficulty to this.
Make a character who uses daggers who is effective at:
Level 4.
Level 10.
Level 17.
Challenge: No more than two feats from any source beyond the PHB, PHB2 Complete series. If you're going to multi-class, you can ONLY multi-class two classes + a single PrC. None of this five different classes stuff.
Make a character who uses daggers who is effective at:
Level 4.
Level 10.
Level 17.
Challenge: No more than two feats from any source beyond the PHB, PHB2 Complete series. If you're going to multi-class, you can ONLY multi-class two classes + a single PrC. None of this five different classes stuff.
Last edited:
Nifft
Penguin Herder
The Invisible Blade (C.War) has stupid prerequisites, but in this character's case that's irrelevant, because he's going to enjoy throwing daggers.
Halfling Rogue / Fighter, 25 point buy, Core + C.War
Str 12 (14 -2 racial), Dex 15 (13 +2 racial), Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14
1/ Rogue 1 -- TWF, SA +1d6
2/ Fighter 1 -- Weapon Finesse
3/ Fighter 2 -- Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Dagger)
4/ Rogue 2 -- [Evasion], Dex +1
5/ Rogue 3 -- Far Shot, SA +2d6
6/ Invisible Blade 1 -- Quickdraw, Dagger SA +3d6
7/ IB 2 -- Bleeding Wound
8/ IB 3 -- Dex +1, Dagger SA +4d6, Uncanny Feint (move action)
9/ IB 4 -- Improved TWF, Feint Mastery
10/ IB 5 -- Dagger SA +5d6, Uncanny Feint (free action)
- - -
Clearly optimized for Sneak Attacking, but he doesn't rely on a flanker -- at 10th level, he can Feint 4 times as part of his full attack, and his BAB is +9. He's like a regular Rogue -- strong only against things that are vulnerable to Sneak Attack -- but he's quite strong against them.
For his next two levels, let's delve into at PHB-II.
11/ Fighter 3
12/ Fighter 4 -- +1 Dex, Weapon Specialization (Dagger), Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing)
- - -
Wow, that's cool. Two levels gave us +5 to attack and +4 to damage.
At 12th level, we can afford a Ring of Blinking, too -- it's not quite overkill because there will be foes he can't Feint, but it's not as necessary as it would be for a regular Rogue.
Note that we do NOT have Rapid Shot, so we're one attack behind a Monk, but that's because we've focused on being better at melee.
Next build will feature ToB:Bo9S.
Cheers, -- N
Halfling Rogue / Fighter, 25 point buy, Core + C.War
Str 12 (14 -2 racial), Dex 15 (13 +2 racial), Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14
1/ Rogue 1 -- TWF, SA +1d6
2/ Fighter 1 -- Weapon Finesse
3/ Fighter 2 -- Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Dagger)
4/ Rogue 2 -- [Evasion], Dex +1
5/ Rogue 3 -- Far Shot, SA +2d6
6/ Invisible Blade 1 -- Quickdraw, Dagger SA +3d6
7/ IB 2 -- Bleeding Wound
8/ IB 3 -- Dex +1, Dagger SA +4d6, Uncanny Feint (move action)
9/ IB 4 -- Improved TWF, Feint Mastery
10/ IB 5 -- Dagger SA +5d6, Uncanny Feint (free action)
- - -
Clearly optimized for Sneak Attacking, but he doesn't rely on a flanker -- at 10th level, he can Feint 4 times as part of his full attack, and his BAB is +9. He's like a regular Rogue -- strong only against things that are vulnerable to Sneak Attack -- but he's quite strong against them.
For his next two levels, let's delve into at PHB-II.
11/ Fighter 3
12/ Fighter 4 -- +1 Dex, Weapon Specialization (Dagger), Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing)
- - -
Wow, that's cool. Two levels gave us +5 to attack and +4 to damage.
At 12th level, we can afford a Ring of Blinking, too -- it's not quite overkill because there will be foes he can't Feint, but it's not as necessary as it would be for a regular Rogue.
Note that we do NOT have Rapid Shot, so we're one attack behind a Monk, but that's because we've focused on being better at melee.
Next build will feature ToB:Bo9S.
Cheers, -- N
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Rechan said:I want to add a little difficulty to this.
Make a character who uses daggers who is effective at:
Level 4.
Level 10.
Level 17.
Challenge: No more than two feats from any source beyond the PHB, PHB2 Complete series. If you're going to multi-class, you can ONLY multi-class two classes + a single PrC. None of this five different classes stuff.
See my first build, above. Also my second.
I'm not going to touch level 17, though. Too much equipment. I'm going to stop at 12.
Cheers, -- N
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Before he started at WotC, Mearls wrote a knife-fighter PrC that he said was inspired by Navajas in Desperado...
-Hyp.
-Hyp.
Hey Nifft. A thought occurs.
The issue with SA is that you always have to have your target off guard, or feinting, and that doesn't work if he's an ooze/undead/construct.
How about swapping out Scout for Rogue? The skirmish damage progresses just like SA, but the benefit is that it always works as long as you move at least 10 ft.
Plus, at 4th level, you get a bonus feat, which has lots of ranged options.
The issue with SA is that you always have to have your target off guard, or feinting, and that doesn't work if he's an ooze/undead/construct.
How about swapping out Scout for Rogue? The skirmish damage progresses just like SA, but the benefit is that it always works as long as you move at least 10 ft.
Plus, at 4th level, you get a bonus feat, which has lots of ranged options.
Gloombunny
First Post
Skirmish removes the need for feinting/blinking/being invisible, but it still doesn't work on undead and the like. And sneak attack damage progresses twice as fast as skirmish. (Though skirmish grants an AC bonus as well.)
