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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8717050" data-attributes="member: 67338"><p>so in another thread I tried to compare how much better a fighter was to a wizard... we did 11th level and that of course is not only 1/2 through the game but by most accounts a level most don't see. </p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="numbers"]</p><p></p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p>basicly I showed a 11th level wizard against an 11th level fighter I gave the fighter sword and board 3 attacks and a 19+ crit range with a +1 Longsword and the wizard a +1 wand but no spells as treasure, and both a 20 prime stat. the wizard can prep 16 spells but taking only 8 as damage ones (so half) I could come pretty close (and no I didn't optimize the spell choice except at 3rd level I did take fireball) and they would know 28</p><p></p><p>end the fighter still did more over 7 encounters but not a lot more round fighter up to 770 and round the wizard down to 620 leave a shakey about 150 difference. Now I wanted to go on and do a bladesinger with 2 attacks, a warcleric with 2 attacks and the extra radiant damage at 11 and a hex blade...</p><p></p><p>BUT i am not really the go to math guy (not that I am bad but just not the best) but I know there ARE math guys and gals here... so I ask, what CAN we do for comparisons? not just 11th level like I did... can we make a (hopefully polite and not arguing) thread were we figure out what the damage outputs of average or slightly above average players are over an adventuring day? </p><p></p><p>i figure I would do rouge at 11 next (should be easy with some assumptions)</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="rogue 11"] so we have been told that the designer assumed the rogue would get SA most of the time, and I am going to say that I do see most rogue DO get it... I am not accounting for a subclass, but I am going to say 1/3 of there attacks have advantage and 3/4 get sneak attack (seems desent) and I am not using rapier (best weapon i have found for them) I am useing the middle ground short sword (also cause I am lazy and it is just another D6.</p><p></p><p>20 dex at 11th level and +1 weapon is then a +10 to hit. I have been told 'quick' advantage math is a +4.XXX that most round up to +5 but I am going to call it just +4.</p><p>for an average AC I am pulling 16 out of my butt just like before and that means without advantage hits on 6+ with hits on anything but a 2.</p><p>damage is 1d6+6 (9) without SA, and +21 more (30) with SA... crits get crazy without SA it is 13 and with it is 56</p><p></p><p>average fight is like 4 rounds, that makes 24 attack rolls in 7 combats (no opp attacks this time cause 24 divided by both 4 and 3 so it makes it easy)</p><p>8 with advantage is 90% hit for 30 and 5% hit for 56 (DPR 29.8 I am rounding up to 30) 240 damage</p><p>8 more with no advantage but still SA is 70% hit for 30 and 5% hit for 56 (DPR 22.8 still rounding up to 23) 184</p><p>8 attacks with no advantage and no sneak attack (now that I write that it seems high) 70% hit for 9 and 5% hit for 13 (DPR 6.75 I am rounding up to 7) 56 </p><p></p><p>so over a day a 11th level not exactly optimized or lucky rogue can deal about 480 damage... I was expecting more</p><p></p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>so I will take my end the fighter still did more over 7 encounters but not a lot more round fighter up to 770 and round the wizard down to 620 leave a shakey about 150 difference. and add in my 480 damage from a rogue and see Wizards out damage rogue!?!! even saying caster supremacy I did NOT see that coming... but they can't keep up at all</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 8717050, member: 67338"] so in another thread I tried to compare how much better a fighter was to a wizard... we did 11th level and that of course is not only 1/2 through the game but by most accounts a level most don't see. [SPOILER="numbers"] [/SPOILER] basicly I showed a 11th level wizard against an 11th level fighter I gave the fighter sword and board 3 attacks and a 19+ crit range with a +1 Longsword and the wizard a +1 wand but no spells as treasure, and both a 20 prime stat. the wizard can prep 16 spells but taking only 8 as damage ones (so half) I could come pretty close (and no I didn't optimize the spell choice except at 3rd level I did take fireball) and they would know 28 end the fighter still did more over 7 encounters but not a lot more round fighter up to 770 and round the wizard down to 620 leave a shakey about 150 difference. Now I wanted to go on and do a bladesinger with 2 attacks, a warcleric with 2 attacks and the extra radiant damage at 11 and a hex blade... BUT i am not really the go to math guy (not that I am bad but just not the best) but I know there ARE math guys and gals here... so I ask, what CAN we do for comparisons? not just 11th level like I did... can we make a (hopefully polite and not arguing) thread were we figure out what the damage outputs of average or slightly above average players are over an adventuring day? i figure I would do rouge at 11 next (should be easy with some assumptions) [SPOILER="rogue 11"] so we have been told that the designer assumed the rogue would get SA most of the time, and I am going to say that I do see most rogue DO get it... I am not accounting for a subclass, but I am going to say 1/3 of there attacks have advantage and 3/4 get sneak attack (seems desent) and I am not using rapier (best weapon i have found for them) I am useing the middle ground short sword (also cause I am lazy and it is just another D6. 20 dex at 11th level and +1 weapon is then a +10 to hit. I have been told 'quick' advantage math is a +4.XXX that most round up to +5 but I am going to call it just +4. for an average AC I am pulling 16 out of my butt just like before and that means without advantage hits on 6+ with hits on anything but a 2. damage is 1d6+6 (9) without SA, and +21 more (30) with SA... crits get crazy without SA it is 13 and with it is 56 average fight is like 4 rounds, that makes 24 attack rolls in 7 combats (no opp attacks this time cause 24 divided by both 4 and 3 so it makes it easy) 8 with advantage is 90% hit for 30 and 5% hit for 56 (DPR 29.8 I am rounding up to 30) 240 damage 8 more with no advantage but still SA is 70% hit for 30 and 5% hit for 56 (DPR 22.8 still rounding up to 23) 184 8 attacks with no advantage and no sneak attack (now that I write that it seems high) 70% hit for 9 and 5% hit for 13 (DPR 6.75 I am rounding up to 7) 56 so over a day a 11th level not exactly optimized or lucky rogue can deal about 480 damage... I was expecting more [/SPOILER] so I will take my end the fighter still did more over 7 encounters but not a lot more round fighter up to 770 and round the wizard down to 620 leave a shakey about 150 difference. and add in my 480 damage from a rogue and see Wizards out damage rogue!?!! even saying caster supremacy I did NOT see that coming... but they can't keep up at all [/QUOTE]
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