D&D General Dark Sun as a Hopepunk Setting

[Zardnaar]

Expecting the players to be surprised about the sorcerer kings is kind of like expecting them to be surprised that Strahd is a vampire. In that case my players role played their characters being surprised though.

Most new players don't know the metaplot.

No big surprise theyre defilers.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Most new players don't know the metaplot.

No big surprise theyre defilers.

If players have heard anything at all about Dark Sun it will be “evil sorcerer kings”. And even if they haven’t heard anything at all, it’s blindingly obvious from a meta perspective. Same with Strahd, you don’t need to have heard of him to know what a guy with a widows peak and black cape in a pointy-spired castle is.

You can make things secret to the characters, but you can’t expect players to check their meta-brains at the door. Better to tell them what their characters don’t know.

 

[Zardnaar]

If players have heard anything at all about Dark Sun it will be “evil sorcerer kings”. And even if they haven’t heard anything at all, it’s blindingly obvious from a meta perspective. Same with Strahd, you don’t need to have heard of him to know what a guy with a widows peak and black cape in a pointy-spired castle is.

You can make things secret to the characters, but you can’t expect players to check their meta-brains at the door. Better to tell them what their characters don’t know.

I was referencing the genocides.

That's more advanced metaplot. Later books or the novels.

Yeah its obvious theyre defilers.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I was referencing the genocides.

That's more advanced metaplot. Later books or the novels.

Yeah its obvious theyre defilers.

And it’s obvious they are genocidal.

 

[Zardnaar]

And it’s obvious they are genocidal.

Not in OBS.

No mention of cleansing wars, past is mysterious etc.

If you haven't read Darksun I've surprised them theyre Dragons.

So yeah I don't think its obvious or theyre Dragons. That all came later.

I remember reading Dragon Kings for the first time. Mind blown lol. I don't think that mentioned it either.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Not in OBS.

No mention of cleansing wars, past is mysterious etc.

So, it's obvious the authorities have something terrible to hide.

If you haven't read Darksun I've surprised them theyre Dragons.

Pretty sure it was in the original boxed set. But "dragon" has a metaphorical significance which makes it obvious. It's the same reason Shadowrun's megacorps are run by dragons.

So yeah I don't think its obvious or theyre Dragons. That all came later.

I remember reading Dragon Kings for the first time. Mind blown lol. I don't think that mentioned it either.

Maybe my players are a little more genre-savvy?

 

[Zardnaar]

So, it's obvious the authorities have something terrible to hide.

Pretty sure it was in the original boxed set. But "dragon" has a metaphorical significance which makes it obvious. It's the same reason Shadowrun's megacorps are run by dragons.

Maybe my players are a little more genre-savvy?

Maybe. Mandela memory.
Cleansing wars wasn't mentioned in product until 94 iirc. Outside the novels it was the 2nd one iirc that brought it up.

Reasonably sure it wasn't referenced OBS, Dragon Kings, Dunedin Trader, Earth, Air. Fire, Water.

By D&D standards the prism oenrad were masterclass novels. Not a fan of what they did to the setting.

I don't want them retconned out just revert to an updated OBS adding stuff that makes sense. A lot of the "problem" things people mention about DS also came later.

Muls, slavery and Sorcerer Kings being tyrants was in the OBS. Iirc the Wanderer calls them defilers.

The Dragon us in OBS but he isn't a Sorcerer King abd the SKs aren't Dragons.

Iirc that was Dragon Kings and book 2 or 3 of Prism Pentad.

I hate retcons. Dont retcon the old lore away but leave it open ended and give PCs a chance to over throw Kalak imho. Let's individual DMs the choice to use 4E, okd lire or their own.

All the TSR setting suffered from RSE metaplot imho. I was 17 we had a Templar of Kakak in the party. He used his wealth for parties and they had private estate that kinda sidelined Kalak.

 

[Tonguez]

So hows this for an inciting incident?
The obsidian tower of Kalak’s great ziggurat rises high over Tyr, heat still radiating from the stones, though both suns hang low on the horizon.

The streets bustle uneasily—merchants bartering quickly, templars in bone armor patrolling, eyes sharp for trouble. Whispers coil through the alleys: disappearances, chains, and cries muffled by the night. For the past two evenings, templars have taken people for rebellion, petty crime, or simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And somehow, you got involved.

• What were you doing when the templars started taking people?
• Are you amongst the captured or was your friend, kin, companion or mentor taken?
• Why can’t you simply walk away and let fate take its course?

Now the thought gnaws at you: if you do nothing, the captured will vanish into the bowels of the ziggurat—slaves for the labor camps, fodder for the gladiatorial arena, or sacrifices to fuel Kalak’s sorcery.

What do you do?

• “Do you fade into the city to escape the templars’ notice?”
• “Do you follow the templars to find where they’re taking the captives?”
• “Do you try to bribe or bargain with a guard?”
• “Do you try to find help in Tyr’s underbelly?”
• “Do you fight?”

GM Note: The Preservers have planned a raid on the Templars which provides the distraction which allows the PCs to rescue prisoners and either join the raid or escape. The GM should use the raid to provide a surge to the adventure

• On the way to the pits (ambush in the streets).
• Inside the pens (the perfect distraction).
• During escape (cover fire as templars swarm).

This gets the PCs noticed by the resistance with attempts to recruit them in the next Act...

 

[Staffan]

So, it's obvious the authorities have something terrible to hide.

Pretty sure it was in the original boxed set. But "dragon" has a metaphorical significance which makes it obvious. It's the same reason Shadowrun's megacorps are run by dragons.

The dragon was in the original boxed set, but the sorcerer-monarchs were described as highly powerful defilers/psionicists. The concept that they were proto-dragons was introduced in the novel The Verdant Passage as well as the hardback Dragon Kings which mostly focused on level 20+ stuff but also had some generally useful player-facing stuff. Both of these were very early releases in the product line, so it was clearly part of the setting's concept from the start, just not public right away.

The original box also didn't have any talk about Athasian history, only stating that all actual historical records had been purged and what was around should be considered sorcerer-monarch propaganda, but that there had been 183 or 170 (both numbers are stated on the same page) complete 77-year King's Ages since Tyr adopted the common calendar – that's either about 13,000 or 14,000 years. It should also be noted that the lore part of the original boxed set is written in-character by "The Wanderer", so it should not be considered The Truth, but a point of view.

(Also, in Shadowrun, only one of the Big Ten megacorps is directly controlled by a dragon: Saeder-Krupp by Lofwyr. I'm sure other dragons have reasonably large investments in the others, but not to the point of controlling them.)

 

[Maxperson]

Damn straight! Overthrow them before they Dragon-Up!

Dragon-Up, the official soft drink of Athas.