Darkness + natural sunlight + vampires = ?

[CRGreathouse]

Oddly enough, I had read the spell description, as indicated by this snippet of my original post:

I must have missed that. Please accept my apologies.

Ah, but is it sunlight, or is it the magic light that the Darkness spell now creates?

Remember that the darkness spells have always 'illuminated'; they used to shine opaque darkness, and now they shine "shadowy illumination". Is this an extention of the previous versions (shining darkness, but only feebly), or does it both block light and shine it? That's an excercise left to each reader.

 

[Camarath]

Here is my opinion. If a vampire is inside the radius of a Darkness spell it does not count as being in "direct sunlight". I believe that direct is meant to indicate that sunlight must be unimpeded and unmitigated to slay a vampire. I also think that the Darkness spell dampens and impairs the light with in its radius. So since the sunlight needs to be direct to harm the vampire and the Darkness spell reduces the level of the light below the requisite level the vampire will not be harmed.


http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/a/2/8a27acce-5c9e-46b3-8996-1e76c0413d17/MPSetupXP.exe

 

[Camarath]

Does natural sunlight counter/dispel magical darkness?

From the Darkness spell in the SRD

Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area

I would count sunlight as a normal light.

 

[Sanackranib]

darkness might protect him for a short while but he would only be 1 dispell or magic dead area away from his distruction. so I couldn't see a smart vamp relying on it except in the most dire of circomstances

 

[Cheiromancer]

Here is my opinion. If a vampire is inside the radius of a Darkness spell it does not count as being in "direct sunlight". I believe that direct is meant to indicate that sunlight must be unimpeded and unmitigated to slay a vampire. I also think that the Darkness spell dampens and impairs the light with in its radius. So since the sunlight needs to be direct to harm the vampire and the Darkness spell reduces the level of the light below the requisite level the vampire will not be harmed.

I agree- darkness dampens and impairs the light almost to the point of annihilating it. At least until someone casts a daylight spell, in which case the darkness is swept away. The question is, then, whether direct natural sunlight is effective against darkness in the same way that daylight is.

I would count sunlight as a normal light.

I'm not sure of I would. Sunlight in D&D has magical properties. Look at the text of the spell daylight which reads

Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light (such as vampires).

In other words, natural sunlight is more powerful/effective than daylight vs creatures like vampires. I don't know of any case where normal torches or candles have greater effects than a light spell. So I hesitate to put them in the same category- I would rather rank them in increasing order as torches, light, daylight, direct natural sunlight.

I guess it boils down to the question of whether natural direct sunlight is in the category of lanterns and torches, or if it does everything a daylight spell can do, and then some.

Another way of looking at it is to consider cloak of dark power (FRCS), a first level drow spell which does not interfere with vision but does protect against sunlight for one minute per level. Darkness would seem to be superior to cloak of dark power, and so if it protects against sunlight, so should darkness.

But cloak of dark power was probably balanced against the 3.0 version of darkness, so comparison may be misleading. Not to mention the fact that cloak of dark power is an abjuration spell, and lacks the [darkness] descriptor.

So what is the most logical and consistent interpretation of the rules? I am leaning towards the idea that darkness spells are dispelled by direct natural sunlight, and so a vampire could not be protected by them.

 

[Darklone]

[rant]Bah, lame. IMHO the Daylight spell should destroy vampires. And a little cantrip should be enough to make a gunmans silly blackpowder explode. But noooo, this would make epic fantasy too easy.[/rant]

 

[Camarath]

Sunlight in D&D has magical properties.

AFAIK sunlight possesses no innate magical properties.

In other words, natural sunlight is more powerful/effective than daylight vs creatures like vampires. I don't know of any case where normal torches or candles have greater effects than a light spell. So I hesitate to put them in the same category- I would rather rank them in increasing order as torches, light, daylight, direct natural sunlight.

Sunlight hurts vampires and creatures like them not because of the properties of sunlight but because of the properties of the vampire. Vampires have specific weaknesses to normally harmless things (sunlight, water) this does not impart magical properties to those things.

I guess it boils down to the question of whether natural direct sunlight is in the category of lanterns and torches, or if it does everything a daylight spell can do, and then some.

Sunlight is non-magical light just as is the light created by lanterns and torches. Sunlight is not a spell and is not magical. It is a natural non-magical phenomenon. Only spells can dispel Darkness. IMO natural direct sunlight should have no effect on it.

So what is the most logical and consistent interpretation of the rules? I am leaning towards the idea that darkness spells are dispelled by direct natural sunlight, and so a vampire could not be protected by them.

Ok, as long as your magical sunlight can be blocked by an Anti-magic field.

 

[Cheiromancer]

AFAIK sunlight possesses no innate magical properties.
Sunlight hurts vampires and creatures like them not because of the properties of sunlight but because of the properties of the vampire. Vampires have specific weaknesses to normally harmless things (sunlight, water) this does not impart magical properties to those things.
Sunlight is non-magical light just as is the light created by lanterns and torches. Sunlight is not a spell and is not magical. It is a natural non-magical phenomenon. Only spells can dispel Darkness. IMO natural direct sunlight should have no effect on it.
Ok, as long as your magical sunlight can be blocked by an Anti-magic field.

LOL! Excellent points, especially the last one. I stand corrected.