Darksun Defilers 3.5

[Anthelios]

Greetings all, I posted this on PADND and got no responses, so I thought I'd try a more active board. So far this community has been very quick on answering questions, and has a vast pool of collective knowledge to draw on.

I'm about ready to run a 3.5 Darksun game. I've aquired almost all the new rules, including Dragon 319 and Dungeon 110 which contain the 3.5 PHB and DMG for darksun. My only problem is that I havnt been able to find Dragon 315, which has the rules for 3.5 Defilers.

Now I'm working on my own system to use, but I'd really like to know what the official rules allow them to do in 3.5. Is it a defiler for empowerment? Or some other sort of ability.

Any information would be greatly appreciated, including any homebrewed stuff people have come up with for their own 3.X Darksun games.

 

[Henry]

have you checked the rules at www.athas.org ? Free and complete. I also know that some people do not like athas.org's take on the situation, but you may want to check them out, and see if you want to adopt them.

 

[Staffan]

For my Dark Sun conversion, I made defiler a separate class that's very close to the wizard. The first difference is that it gets +1 caster level at levels 2, 9, and 16 - this mimics the way a 20th level defiler had about the same XP as a 17th level preserver in 2e. The second is the spell progression, which looks like this:

level	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
1	4	2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
2	5	3	1	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
3	5	3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—	—
4	5	4	3	1	—	—	—	—	—	—
5	5	4	3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—
6	5	4	4	3	1	—	—	—	—	—
7	5	5	4	3	2	—	—	—	—	—
8	5	5	4	4	3	1	—	—	—	—
9	5	5	5	4	3	2	—	—	—	—
10	5	5	5	4	4	3	1	—	—	—
11	5	5	5	5	4	3	2	—	—	—
12	5	5	5	5	4	4	3	1	—	—
13	5	5	5	5	5	4	3	2	—	—
14	5	5	5	5	5	4	4	3	1	—
15	5	5	5	5	5	5	4	3	2	—
16	5	5	5	5	5	5	4	4	3	1
17	5	5	5	5	5	5	5	4	3	2
18	5	5	5	5	5	5	5	4	4	3
19	5	5	5	5	5	5	5	5	4	4
20	5	5	5	5	5	5	5	5	5	5

As for the defiling itself, use the rules from 2e to figure out how much terrain is defiled with each spell cast.

A related change I made is that both preservers and defilers got one new spell per spell level instead of two new spells per class level, on account of the rarity of wizard magic on Athas.

 

[Spatula]

Staffan, why play a wizard, then? Having no spells known in addition to the hefty social/politcal baggage is a big downer. Reflecting rarity by restricting the purchase of scrolls seems to be a better solution, to me.

 

[Spatula]

Anthelios, from what I recall, the Dragon rules for defiling allowed you to spontaneously apply metamagic feats without the corresponding increase in spell level. Doing so gave you "defiler points", and as you accumulated points, you suffered various penalties, until you turned into an undead monster. Sort of like dark side points in Star Wars d20, I think. Anyway, it's a bit different than how things worked in 2E, to say the least.

For my own version, I considered making a seperate spell progression chart, similar to what Staffan proposes above. In the end, I simply ruled that all defiler spells are Empowered at no cost, or Enlarged and Extended if they can't be empowered. Yes, it's powerful.

 

[Staffan]

Staffan, why play a wizard, then? Having no spells known in addition to the hefty social/politcal baggage is a big downer. Reflecting rarity by restricting the purchase of scrolls seems to be a better solution, to me.

Well, first of all my Dark Sun doesn't have sorcerers, so if you want arcane magic you'd better suck up the changes to the wizard class. Second, when I started making the conversion, I decided that it was more important to maintain the feel of Dark Sun rather than game balance - apparently other versions of Dark Sun (both Athas.org's and Paizo's) took the other path, which among other things means that they have non-metal versions of all kinds of armor, because making plate unavailable means fighters will have worse ACs, and we can't have that, can we?

Which brings me to another issue: many/most other classes also have problems in Dark Sun. Fighting-types have issues with equipment. I'm not sure, but I think I reduced the high-level "base" cleric spells quite a bit (I don't have my document available at the moment), just like 2e clerics only had minor access to the sphere of Cosmos. Stuff like that.

Also, if I gave out new spells like in core 3e, it would have the somewhat weird effect of defilers having fewer 1st-level spells than preservers, because of getting 2nd level spells earlier. That said, changing the defiler (and preserver, who's basically a normal wizard except for the lack of spell selection) to get 2 spells for free per level shouldn't break anything.

Oh, and I did include a compensation: the cost for scribing spells was reduced to 10 cp per page (which would be 10 gp, modified for metal rarity). I did this both to compensate for lack of free spells, and to allow wizards to easily make duplicate spell books - spell books tend to disappear easier in Dark Sun.

 

[Anthelios]

I finally located a copy of 315, and I say I only half like the presented Defiler rules. I don't like the template they gain when they reach too many points, and I'm currently altering it to give a more Athasian feel.

One thing I did like is the Defiler Score, though. The higher it gets, the easier it becomes for Druids to detect your presence. Druids don't like defilers, after all. I don't like the "Seperate class" thing, just as I didn't like it back in 2ed. The novels didn't go with it being a class based ability, but a choice for the caster when they cast. I like the new version much better in that reguard.

Also they had no mention of Trees of Life in the new 3.5 rules.

Some other alterations I've made to the game include using the Complete Warriors Spell-less ranger variant, a spell-less bard variant that gains poison use and better BaB, and barring the existance of Paladins. The biggest problem with 3.5 is its fear to say "no" to anything.

I've also created rules for "McGyvered" exotic weapons, made from harvested bones, claws, teeth and other things. I'm still working out the kinks in the system, but if people are interested I'll post it.

Anyway, thanks for the quick replies.

 

[Kesh]

One idea I had was that Sorcerers always defile, and Wizards usually preserve. The idea being that Sorcerers always draw their energy from the land around them, while Wizards take the time to build arcane practices that have the least impact on the world possible.

Wizards would, however, have the option to spontaneously metamagic at the cost of defiling. It's easier to give in to temptation than it is to do the right thing...

 

[Staffan]

I don't like the "Seperate class" thing, just as I didn't like it back in 2ed. The novels didn't go with it being a class based ability, but a choice for the caster when they cast. I like the new version much better in that reguard.

I always figured that game material was much more important than the novels, and game material had defilers being a separate class. Especially when the novels even contradicted themselves - Verdant Passage definitely had halfling wizards (both Nok and others - I remember a pair of them flying on giant dragonflies, and being described with the whole "palm toward the ground drawing energy thing"), but in the Cerulean Legion one of the SKs say that halflings couldn't become wizards.

 

[Dark Psion]

I've also created rules for "McGyvered" exotic weapons, made from harvested bones, claws, teeth and other things. I'm still working out the kinks in the system, but if people are interested I'll post it.

Might I direct you over to the E. N. Publishing board and it's EnArsenal open call?
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108482

Once Living Weapons would be a great topic for a book.

As to Defiling. I would allow spontaneous use of all Metamagic feats in the Player's Handbook to any Arcane spell, but it defiles at a rank equal to it added spell levels. This way ALL Arcane casters are potiential defilers. If your brother is about to die on a raider's blade, do you Maximise your last Lightning Bolt, but Defile the land beneath you?

I would modifly the Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana/ Legend of the 5 Rings to create a Defiler score and maybe modify the Maho Tsukai/ Blood Sorcerer to create an actual Defiler PrC.