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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Silverblade The Ench" data-source="post: 4948215" data-attributes="member: 19083">1) I'm a HUGE Dark Sun fan, that and Spelljammer are my faves, followed (in no set order) by Ravenloft, Undermountain, 1st boxed set Realms and Planescape as my fave settings.I've been making art about Dark Sun for about 8 years now, fyi. (though my early efforts were poo, hehe)So, I am NOT a "Johnny Come Lately" to Dark Sun. I've been playing Dark Sun adventures since it was released, I even ran an Athasian campaign online for several years.2) I love 4th ed. I've played since 1st ed, but I love 4th ed, anyone who doesn't like that choice may have forgotten that D&D is supposed to be about fun, not bitterly clinging to nostalgia.If you genuinely love 1st, 2nd or 3rd ed because it's more fun for you, good luck to you, enjoy! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> But many folk cling to the prior editions out of, as said, badly thought out nostalgia. You can never ever "go back", I adored 1st ed, but I was a teenager, it was new etc.I don't mean to start an edition war, but, when comparing the old Dark Sun, to new release, please understand that kind of thing <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> People, gamers too, often view things through rose coloured glasses...Original Dark Sun was marred by the messed up psionic system, remember.the early 1st ed AD&D adventures were HORRENDOUSLY badly set out, for example: tight blocks of text etc, ugh!! That wasn't the fault of Mr Gygax etc, it was all new, you don't make things perfect with your 1st effort, it's been a long learning curve. Things do improve over time!Example: Dark SUn added in the flip book adventure style, which was a real break through! it wasn't perfect btu was miles ahead of the previous ideas on presenting adventuresin an easy to use format.I was upset with 4th ed Realms because of a lot of reasons, but nostalgia wasn't it.I have always preffered the very first Realms boxed set because it made the Realms a more wild, interesting, barbaric, unexplored world. I loathed how it became so over popullated, over mapped, over detailed etc and made it a place I didn't want to DM about <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> I liked the Forgotten Realms, not the Elminsterized Realms*hides behind an oak table* hehe4th ed kind of tried for that more wild feel, but blew it in lacking the gorgeous interior art, stylistics to evoke the feel of a world, huge font/spacing so less bang for the buck, lack of a coherence, screwing spellcasters yet again etc etc. It felt "cheap", alas :/Rich Baker's "Swordmage" books so far have evoked a 4th ed Realms that is damned good, much better than the campaign guide.So I hope WOTC have learned from that debacle' and from what's been said, they realize this. the Eberron guide seemed better, anyways.the 4th ed Dark Sun Guide should have very strong interior artwork borders etc, sounds silly but the old settings *WERE* helped by the simple drama of colour schemes, fonts, border artwork etc, please note how Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Planescape and Dark Sun each had very evocative interior design that was CONSISTANT.It helped give me a real "feel" of the consistancy and feel of the setting. WOTC damn well needs to get back into that verve.So if it was me, I'd use the Papyrus font, have orange gradient borders, obsidian weapons, gems, belgoi bells etc on page corners and so forth.3) I don't give a damn what races they put in Dark Sun 4th ed, provided they "feel" Dark Sun-plausible, because it always WAS a place of mysteries and mutants, so anything may be out there! People moan about dragonborn, when giant bugs are a standard player race, eh?!Go back, read up and you'll find mutations and weird things coming from the desert were commonplace in Athas!4) I HATE HATE BLLOODY WELL HATE the "official" history, and so have the majority of gamers I've talked to about Dark Sun. I can nerdrage, too! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />So, cutting the craptastic mess of Athas' enforced history will please me enormously. If a DM wants Athas ruled by a flying two-headed learnen giant mutant space hamster, fine by me!! it's their campaign <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />We, as DMs do not need histories laid out for us in every campaign setting, it's BAD. Please let us have more freedom to imagine, and Athas sure as heck fits into the idea of a mysterious world you are better NOT knowing the distant history of.Knowing everything does NOT make things better, see the Realms problems.For my version of Athas, I go for an ancient apocalypse caused by the illithids who tried to darken the Sun, screwed up, sun went Nova, gods stopped it but got ganked/banished in the backlash. And Athas is millions of years old...perhaps, because no one knows except the sorceror-kings, and they sure as hell aren't saying! I also love mystery and see Athas like Clark Ashton Smith and Robert E Howard may have written it: strange, barbaric, but sophisticated in ways/places and down right blasted dangerous.5) GeographySee the original Dark SUn map? GOOD! fair sized area but small chunk of the world. for a barbaric mysterious world like Athas adding in a whole world map, see boxed set #2 for Athas, is a self defeating waste of paper.Let players and DMs make things up, "Here be dragons" and lo ! there is! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />If the designers want to fix inconsistancies, fine by me <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I just do not wanna see a majority of Athas mapped.I loved the map of Tyr though, great starting city a DM beginner can work from.The essence of Dark Sun is oppression, savagery, abusive magic, lack of metals, slavery, gladiatorial combats, arenas, psionics, survival, horrendous heat, death by thirst, tyrannical rule by sorceror kings.Dark Sun adventures are about survival, slaughtering your enemies and if you manage to act with morals or honour then you really ARE a hero because you've achieved something difficult indeed.Sorry if that was a little heated, but the way Dark Sun was screwed up all those years ago: history, novels forcing metaplot, etc etc, bugged the hell out of me and I dont' want to see it again. :/*boils up with passion for Athasian fun!* damn it, in middle of Spelljammer piccy or I'd do another Dark Sun one, heheAndorwell, devas could be the Villichi? (female reincarnated/fey humans..and by fey I mean the English language useage of the word, not D&D creature type) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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