Darth Sidious question - **RotS Spoilers**

[Flexor the Mighty!]

You'll note that the RCR doesn't.



After seeing Sith, I am convinced that the class level approach works very well... especially after the grevious fight. I just think the injury and force rules need a little work. (One thing I really don't like about the existing force rules is the chained "roll to set DC" thing and would rather only one roll be involved. Psychic's handbook does this.)

But yeah, I don't think the RCR does the Emperor justice. But it's not that far off... but it would sort of explain why Mace was laying the smack down on him until vader stepped in. But the "he was just faking" approach would suggest that the Emperor is epic level if you buy that Mace is 18th and Yoda is 20th. The final battle with Yoda and the Emperor also suggests that the Emperor has a few levels on him as well.

I just wonder how much "smack" Mace was laying down. Four Jedi walked in. Sideous took three swings basically that killed three of them, Masters too I believe. Then he fights Windu. I think that was all a ruse for Anakin's benefit, he foresaw the future and knew how it would go and how he needed to put Anakin in a position to kill Windu and make his journey to the darkside. I'm of the opinion that it was all staged. But Mace was the #2 Jedi Master so him being able to defeat Sideous isn't farfeched...Maybe I'll read the novel.

 

[BrooklynKnight]

Yeah, but what I was getting at is I don't think the Guardian/Consular thing exists, I there should be a base Jedi class and then maybe some PRC's. I don't think you can model the Emperor or Yoda with just 20 levels either. I don't know why they put the L20 cap in SWD20 myself. I wonder if a M&M style OGL system would work better?

Personally I'd take the D20Modern/Future style of approach

Jedi Knight is an Advanced Class and Jedi Master is a Prestige Class, the advanced class simply requring the Force Sensetive feat (and training) to access.

I'd also include various Jedi backrounds to provide that feat for free.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I don't get the opinion that Mace was scared.

I can only go with the facial expressions as they are given... He doesn’t look all that serene/neutral to me.

One time before Mace faced a similar situation with Dooku - Mace knows that he can kill Dooku and he knows he can STOP the war before it even starts but doing so will cause the deaths of dozens of Jedi in the arena. He chose to help his friends thinking it was the "jedi thing to do" and billions died because of it. Here he is again presented with the exact same situation - he can take one life and save millions or billions. This time he made the right choice, Sidious would die.

Thanks. If I'm reading that correctly then the first time, with Dooku, Mace did the correct Jedi thing, and with Sidious he didn't follow the Jedi Code...

On a side note: Anyhow would be foolish not to get into one AMG's games.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Thanks. If I'm reading that correctly then the first time, with Dooku, Mace did the correct Jedi thing, and with Sidious he didn't follow the Jedi Code...

He did things correctly by the Old Republic Jedi tenants which may or not be in sink with the light side of the force. No matter how you cut it "restoring balance" resulted in the utter destruction of the Old Jedi and nearly all of their teachings.

The point of Shatterpoint and of the Mace/Dooku thoughts was Mace's understanding that the Jedi make piss poor generals, no matter how skilled, primarily their decisions will not be made using sound tactics but will instead be based on individual perceptions (Iin this case Mace's distaste for striking Dooku down without giving him warning or the chance to recant and return to the light). Mace refuses to strike down Dooku and billions of people die because of it. That is hard to rationalize with the force especially with Obi-One telling Anakin to forget about the injured (dead?) Padme and keep his head in the game. Her one life is not wrth the mission.

This whole thing takes up several pages of Shatterpoint and is done much better than my pathetic retelling. The whole point is that the Jedi will risk everything to do something like save Yoda, they won't attack when the enemy is in a disadvantaged position (surprise attack), or exploit a weakness (starve the enemy out) - the exact things that need to be done to win a war.

On a side note: Anyhow would be foolish not to get into one AMG's games.

Say what???

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

He did things correctly by the Old Republic Jedi tenants which may or not be in sink with the light side of the force. No matter how you cut it "restoring balance" resulted in the utter destruction of the Old Jedi and nearly all of their teachings.

The point of Shatterpoint and of the Mace/Dooku thoughts was Mace's understanding that the Jedi make piss poor generals, no matter how skilled, primarily their decisions will not be made using sound tactics but will instead be based on individual perceptions (Iin this case Mace's distaste for striking Dooku down without giving him warning or the chance to recant and return to the light). Mace refuses to strike down Dooku and billions of people die because of it. That is hard to rationalize with the force especially with Obi-One telling Anakin to forget about the injured (dead?) Padme and keep his head in the game. Her one life is not wrth the mission.

This whole thing takes up several pages of Shatterpoint and is done much better than my pathetic retelling. The whole point is that the Jedi will risk everything to do something like save Yoda, they won't attack when the enemy is in a disadvantaged position (surprise attack), or exploit a weakness (starve the enemy out) - the exact things that need to be done to win a war.



Say what???

Maybe that´s actually a good protection to avoid the Jedi ever starting a war against non-Jedi. They are so indoctrinated in their Jedi "morals" that they´ll never fight unfair...
But maybe it´s just a counterpoint to the fact that Jedi are simply superior to non-jedi. They should be able to defeat you without backstabbing or besieging you...

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

No matter how you cut it "restoring balance" resulted in the utter destruction of the Old Jedi and nearly all of their teachings.

He brought balance to The Force...not the Jedi. The Jedi didn't think of that possibility.

Say what???

BS likes the Star Wars games I run. And, considering how many people complain about what doesn't happen in thier SWd20 games, I should really run a game for all of them to see that its possible to run a VERY Star Wars feeling game with the d20 rules.

i.e. Jedi using Deflect on blasters all the time, movement during fights instead of just standing in one place and attacking, using the Force in more inventive ways rather, etc etc.

 

[Eosin the Red]

They should be able to defeat you without backstabbing or besieging you...

But can the 10,000 jedi defeat the millions of trillions of dissenters?

[trigger SW pet peeve] Sometimes SW numbers are freaky unrealistic (A Superstar Destroyer has how many crew members?).[/SW pet peeve]

 

[Eosin the Red]

BS likes the Star Wars games I run. And, considering how many people complain about what doesn't happen in thier SWd20 games, I should really run a game for all of them to see that its possible to run a VERY Star Wars feeling game with the d20 rules.

i.e. Jedi using Deflect on blasters all the time, movement during fights instead of just standing in one place and attacking, using the Force in more inventive ways rather, etc etc.

I know we are gonna disagree on what equals balance which is why I phrased things the way I did We can meet somewhere near the middle ground with "but the Republic Jedi and the bulk of their teachings were destroyed, incidentially or not in the restoration of balance." It allows agreement on the outcome, if not the intent and what exatly satisfies the requirements of "balance."

Sounds like you run a good SW game. I will skirt over and do a little reading.