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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9069044" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Yes. Note the words you used, vs. the words almost everyone is using in this context.The mechanics ARE JUST FINE. They aren't amazing. They aren't the most wonderful thing ever. Nor are they bad or wrong or heinous. They're (at least) tolerable to most players. Which is what I have been claiming this whole time! I literally said that's why I quoted the Declaration of Independence.And, most crucially, again in your own words, there is no evidence that the Fighter mechanics are broadly liked or disliked. So any argument which starts from the position, "Because X is liked, absolutely no changes should be made to its mechanics" is wrongheaded. One must instead defend why either (a) this specific set of mechanics is necessary and anything else would be unacceptable, or (b) whatever alternative mechanics are proposed (note, I have not done so at all in this conversation, for several reasons!) are unacceptable, though there might be some other set that would be.Just so I'm absolutely, 100% clear:They want something more simple than they like.Because that is what "simplistic" means. Not just that it is simple; that it is undesirably simple.They desire something undesirable. You are specifically claiming they desire something that would be undesirable to them. That is what you are saying, correct?Because I hope those sentences explain why I find that genuinely unbelievable. I can (and do!) believe that they want something extremely simple. Maximally simple, even. But I cannot believe that they desire something that they would call excessively simple. I can (and do!) believe that they might have, whether properly or simply practically, no limit for how simple something can be--if it could be made simpler, they would want it so, no matter how simple its current state.But I cannot believe that they want something to be so simple that they wouldn't want it. Because that is a contradiction.</blockquote>

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