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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9077998" data-attributes="member: 6795602">What a terrible comparison.&nbsp; Not only are you assuming Rage - something you only have 3 uses of per day, but you also are assuming you are frenzying something you are doing even fewer times per day without significant penalties.&nbsp; Then the match that up against one of the worst Fighter Subclasses out there?Heck, keep the rage and let's redo the comparison.Barbarian now does 24.375 DPR.&nbsp; Will take 3 rounds to kill Owlbear.&nbsp; He will take 33.93 Damage.&nbsp; Leaving him with 21 HP.Fighter will also kill the Owlbear in 3 rounds - if you are assuming rage then assuming action surge seems fair.&nbsp; Fighter will be left with 19.6 hp.&nbsp; However Fighter can also 2nd wind to get up to 30 hp.So unless you are assuming a very specific Barbarian subclass that is also using what's for all intents a very limited use ability then the Barbarian isn't typically outperforming the fighter on his own.Note also, rage must be activated - if the owl bear wins initiative the Barbarian takes 17 Damage that round.&nbsp; If the barbarian ever faces anything that can disable him, even for a turn, that's rage down.&nbsp; If the barbarian ever faces anything with non-BPS attack component (fairly common as you level) he also starts taking even more damage by comparison.&nbsp; Not to mention some nasty effects occur on a hit (or only force the saving throw chance to avoid if hit by the attack).&nbsp; I'm a huge fan of barbarians and rage in general, but a high AC tends to be a better defense.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9077998, member: 6795602"] What a terrible comparison. Not only are you assuming Rage - something you only have 3 uses of per day, but you also are assuming you are frenzying something you are doing even fewer times per day without significant penalties. Then the match that up against one of the worst Fighter Subclasses out there? Heck, keep the rage and let's redo the comparison. Barbarian now does 24.375 DPR. Will take 3 rounds to kill Owlbear. He will take 33.93 Damage. Leaving him with 21 HP. Fighter will also kill the Owlbear in 3 rounds - if you are assuming rage then assuming action surge seems fair. Fighter will be left with 19.6 hp. However Fighter can also 2nd wind to get up to 30 hp. So unless you are assuming a very specific Barbarian subclass that is also using what's for all intents a very limited use ability then the Barbarian isn't typically outperforming the fighter on his own. Note also, rage must be activated - if the owl bear wins initiative the Barbarian takes 17 Damage that round. If the barbarian ever faces anything that can disable him, even for a turn, that's rage down. If the barbarian ever faces anything with non-BPS attack component (fairly common as you level) he also starts taking even more damage by comparison. Not to mention some nasty effects occur on a hit (or only force the saving throw chance to avoid if hit by the attack). I'm a huge fan of barbarians and rage in general, but a high AC tends to be a better defense. [/QUOTE]

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