Dateline NBC just ran a hatchet-job on RPG's?

[Tom Cashel]

I thought you looked familiar!

I am seriously amazed at how fortunate I am to not have been often severely harmed or jailed given how stupid I was 20 or so years ago. Thank God I finally got my head on more or less straight.

Heh...likewise with this Career Fool™.

(Mark, you're a good egg; you don't seem at all a git to me. I surfed over here ready to flinch at how my comments would be received...you got it just right. New flash! I do flinch and shudder at how my comments will be received!)

Dateline is strictly for the straights. Mainstream culture will believe what it wants to believe. Mainstream culture thinks Bennifer is an interesting concept, and that Britney Spears can sing! I'm with Mark...this is no cause for alarm.

 

[Remus Lupin]

Afterthought: Suppose he had been a Monopoly, or a Chess, or a Scrabble player. We all know that wouldn't have been a factor in the murder case, what is the social psychology that requires police to suspect gaming as a factor whenever it comes into connection with a murder, or a suicide, or anything else freaky?

 

[D'karr]

Afterthought: Suppose he had been a Monopoly, or a Chess, or a Scrabble player. We all know that wouldn't have been a factor in the murder case, what is the social psychology that requires police to suspect gaming as a factor whenever it comes into connection with a murder, or a suicide, or anything else freaky?

They did find a box containing "CLUE, the D&D edition". That must have tipped them off. It was Colonel Mustard with the Vampire stake in the living room. Therefore the M and V, Mustard Vampire.

 

[kingpaul]

Before my wife and I were married, we had a long conversation that pretty much amounted to me saying, "Gaming is a part of who I am. It isn't going aware anytime in my life that I can foresee. If you have a problem with it or are interested in making me 'grow up' and stop playing, then you're under some dillusions. Are we clear?"

My wife and I had a similar conversation while we were dating. In fact, she played in a mini Immortal campaign my best friend was playing. She hadn't gamed before, never heard of gaming until she met me, so didn't have the 'baggage' of Chick, Pulling, et al to deal with. She didn't enjoy it, but doesn't mind me gaming (as long as I still help out around the house (of course)).

 

[kingpaul]

what is the social psychology that requires police to suspect gaming as a factor whenever it comes into connection with a murder, or a suicide, or anything else freaky?

Probably Pulling and her 'classes' she offered for police when she was promoting B.A.D.D.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Afterthought: Suppose he had been a Monopoly, or a Chess, or a Scrabble player. We all know that wouldn't have been a factor in the murder case, what is the social psychology that requires police to suspect gaming as a factor whenever it comes into connection with a murder, or a suicide, or anything else freaky?

To answer this seriously for once instead of engaging in the "poor misunderstood me"-fest, it makes perfect sense. People on this board who play the games and think they are well adjusted will still refer to RPGs as "power fantasies" They will say things like "I play D&D to be someone other than who I am." They talk about escapism. On another board, a call of cuthulu player refered to standing up, knocking over his chair and screaming at the DM as "good roleplaying" and "getting in character".

And you are seriously sitting here acting like its a prejudicial or stupid attitude to consider RPGs more highly than scrabble... Power fantasy/escapist behavior may be a normal sideline to being a functioning adult. But if you have demonstrated "non functioning" behaviors already, that indicated desire to escape from who you really are and indulge in fantaies of power ARE going to be relevant to an investigation. Is that so hard to accept? I mean, I'm a back to nature type on occasion, I dream of having a vacation cabin with no power or battery operated equiptment or even running water - but I didn't throw a rod and get all defensive when the Unibomber's similar living habits were investigated and used to tie into his abnormal behavior...

I guess I honestly don't see what the big deal is... I have hobbies and habits which, when taken to extremes, could be destructive. Lots of them. If, for whatever reason, I ever went off the deep end, those would be given consideration as either causes, indicators, or possible motivational leads to my behavior. I'm not insulted when this is applied to my interest in collecting knives, I'm not up in arms about the idea that my perscription for anti depressants might be relevant, I'm not even threatened by the idea that in such a case some of my *ehem* former romantic habits might be considered "leads". And I can't really be bothered by the idea that my RPG hobby could draw some attention either.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Mercule]

I don't think the issue is whether RPGs, taken to extremes, could be a catalyst for something. I think the issue is that it seems to be one of the first suspects when there is even a hazy link.

I haven't seen the report being discussed in this thread. From the sound of things, however, it certainly seems like NBC made quite a reach to sensationalize the story. I guess that's what burns me, in general: the half-truths and ignorance gone wild that so often seems to happen in today's (not to say it hasn't in days gone by, I just wouldn't know) media. Sometimes you get real facts, but most of the time you get somebody's trumped up opinion.

This time, the casualty happens to be a hobby I rather enjoy and think is, overall, a healthy activity for people of all ages.

 

[Remus Lupin]

And you are seriously sitting here acting like its a prejudicial or stupid attitude to consider RPGs more highly than scrabble...

Scrabble, perhaps not, but if you've ever hung out in Harvard Square with some of the chess freaks that hang out there, then yes, I think that there would be as valid a connection between chess and freaky behavior and RPGs and freaky behavior.

guess I honestly don't see what the big deal is... I have hobbies and habits which, when taken to extremes, could be destructive.

And, if they argument on the other side was, "that's a hobby that could be dangerous if taken to extremes," then it would be correct. But the argument is instead this: "That behavior is evidence of a deviant personality and therefore is valid evidence that the person is a murderer."

Suppose you got put on trial for murder, and the fact that you had a cabin in the woods without electricity was brought up as evidence of your deviance, rather than simply a hobby that a normal human being could indulge in. I think you'd throw a rod. And if your wife looked at you like a two headed mutant when they watched a show that involved your little hideaway, it would probably be more than marginally upsetting.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

And, if they argument on the other side was, "that's a hobby that could be dangerous if taken to extremes," then it would be correct. But the argument is instead this: "That behavior is evidence of a deviant personality and therefore is valid evidence that the person is a murderer."

didn't see the report, is that really what they said? or was it PART of the evidence that led him to be considered?

Suppose you got put on trial for murder, and the fact that you had a cabin in the woods without electricity was brought up as evidence of your deviance, rather than simply a hobby that a normal human being could indulge in. I think you'd throw a rod. And if your wife looked at you like a two headed mutant when they watched a show that involved your little hideaway, it would probably be more than marginally upsetting.

actually, my fiance already does look at me like a mutant when I wax poetic about primative hideaways... And the unibomber's cabin was, iirc, dismantled and put together in the courtroom to be presented as evidence... not any forensic evidence from the cabin, but the way he lived put out as a part of the evidence against him.

If I was on trial for murder, I'd consider it a good thing that the only evidence they were bringing was my hobbies, as those are less than circumstancial. None of you here are on trial. And frankly, throwing a rod about it just makes you look way too emotionally invested in it. I can only hope that your ensueing discussion with your wife was more reasonable than everyone's comment's on this thread... But hey, I met my fiancee in the D&D group we both played in, and even if I hadn't can't imagine having gotten to the married state with someone without having worked through all that already... but I'm an overcommnicator...

 

[reapersaurus]

Kahuna Burger - I can see your point, but I just can't help but be offended/concerned that a national show would feel comfortable painting RPG's with such a broad, negative brush.

MAybe it's because I live on the West Coast, and haven't experienced what many people talk about, with intolerance towards RPG's. So I just don't get this attitude of "meh - people think that way, so who am I to balk when they take cracks at RPG's?"

If someone did that around me, I'd be VERY quick to take them to task about it, and question their perceptions. How else do perceptions get changed? Sheer blind hope?

Every time when biases against RPG's are encountered and let go by without a fight is one more example where the public believes that what is being said must be true, since noone fought to correct them.