Dawn of the Dead (2004)

[Kai Lord]

Like, I don't know, the fact that a human being stripped of everything she held dear might become attached to something like a pet, and when that pet is in danger, do something irrational?

Right. She won't act irrationally when she's about to lose her father but she will for a dog that the movie ridiculously establishes the zombies have no interest in.

Naw, people never rush back into burning houses to save heirlooms or beloved pets.

For heirlooms and pets immune to fire? I've never heard of that ever happening once.

Kai, why don't you just say you didn't like the movie then leave the thread? You've done nothing but bash since you hopped on,

Not quite. My first post gave specific examples of some of the things I both liked and disliked. Most everything else has been responses to posts like yours.

and your points really don't hold water once they move past personal preference.

Nice try, but you'll need to to better than that. Even the people who disagree with my opinion concede that some of the characters in the movie are stupid and poorly written, but that they find clever writing and logical characters in horror films "boring."

I'm glad you enjoyed it when they decided to secure the mall and one guy with a shotgun guards the girls, one guy with a pistol goes one way, and the other guy without a firearm goes off by himself and opens a door after hearing chewing sounds on the other side. Of course he has to be rewarded for his abject stupidity with survival, as was the girl and her doggie, which is even more annoying.

I loved the first 10 minutes, enjoyed the pacing, thought some of the characters (Ana, Ving Rhames, Andy, Mikhei Pfiffer) were great, and was gleefully on edge by the heart-pounding tone of most of the film. I don't have a problem with characters "losing it" in traumatic situations, note that I haven't once criticized the scene where

Spoiler

Pfiffer keeps his pregnant girlfriend alive even though technically that wasn't the "smart" thing to do. But his girlfriend and baby were everything to him even before the zombie epidemic and he paid for his actions with his life.

The dog thing was just dumb in so many ways. So bad that instead of being immersed in the story and thinking "wow, this is intense, people are losing it" I thought "wow, what utterly stupid and lazy writing. Hope that ridiculous character dies so she won't detract from the rest of the story." That to me is boring filmmaking.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

God forbid they actually think up a plausible reason to have a girl try to "rescue" something like in Aliens or the Texas Chainsaw remake.

this is getting a little flame-arific, but I'm just currious. (didn't see the film by the way, not my cuppa) Since you meantion the "going back for a rescue" scene in Aliens, how do you rank the one in Alien, where Ripley goes for the ship's cat? I've seen it characterarized as a dumb horror movie move, and as a good bit of her character that with everything else lost she was willing to take a risk for that one last peice of life. Do you rank it as you do this dog scene, or differently?

Kahuna Burger

 

[Villano]

To complain because a horror movie is a remake of a sequel of a rehash of an adaptation of a copy of a... There's only ONE horror story.

No, it only looks like there's only one story because of all the remakes and sequels.

At some point, someone came up with the original films that are being remade left and right. Those were original ideas. Sure, you can split hairs and argue that there's nothing new under the sun, but common themes are different than digging out a script for a good film and then handing it off to someone to rewrite.

There are lots of werewolf movies, but The Howling, Silver Bullet, and Teen Wolf aren't all remakes of The Wolfman.

At least, if you want to remake a movie, pick a film that isn't very good to start with. Pick something that had good idea, but a bad script (and possibly bad acting, directing, etc.).

True, there are some good remakes (The Fly) and sequels (Aliens, Bride Of Frankenstein), but there are many more bad ones (Planet Of The Apes, Swept Away, Teenage Caveman, and I,Spy).

this is getting a little flame-arific, but I'm just currious. (didn't see the film by the way, not my cuppa) Since you meantion the "going back for a rescue" scene in Aliens, how do you rank the one in Alien, where Ripley goes for the ship's cat? I've seen it characterarized as a dumb horror movie move, and as a good bit of her character that with everything else lost she was willing to take a risk for that one last peice of life. Do you rank it as you do this dog scene, or differently?

I haven't seen it either (Running zombies? Bah!), but it sounds like the dog in DotD was never in danger from the zombies.

 

[Kai Lord]

this is getting a little flame-arific, but I'm just currious. (didn't see the film by the way, not my cuppa) Since you meantion the "going back for a rescue" scene in Aliens, how do you rank the one in Alien, where Ripley goes for the ship's cat? I've seen it characterarized as a dumb horror movie move, and as a good bit of her character that with everything else lost she was willing to take a risk for that one last peice of life. Do you rank it as you do this dog scene, or differently?

That scene in Alien was pretty cool. She didn't give a second thought to leaving the cat until it started meowing in the same room she was in. So she caught it, set off the self destruct, ran down to the shuttle and then bam, there's the Alien. So she drops the cat right in front of it and races back to the bridge. When she can't abort the self destruct, she has to go back down the hall to the shuttle, and picks up the cat's cage since its right in front of her. I don't have a problem with any of that.

Earlier in the movie when Brett wandered off by himself to get the cat was a pretty classic "dumb horror movie character" move, but back in 1979 that wasn't exactly a huge cliche.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Earlier in the movie when Brett wandered off by himself to get the cat was a pretty classic "dumb horror movie character" move, but back in 1979 that wasn't exactly a huge cliche.

I thought Brett was looking for the alien at that point, which was still thought to be a baby (wasn't everyone looking for it all split up?), and he stumbled on the cat. He tried to get the cat, but then the alien got him... Ripley and her cat never bothered me; it was established very clearly and early on that she cared about him.

The dog and the dumb girl in Dawn I had a problem with. That the zombies wouldn't eat the dog seems silly, unless you consider the plague's source as biblical (which was talked about by the TV preacher [Ken Forre's cameo] early on), and that only people are being punished, not animals, perhaps to cleanse the planet of man's "sins". The dumb girl's relationship with Chips the dog was not as well established as Ripley and her cat Jonesy in Alien. There was some sloppy writing in the new Dawn, but overall I liked it. Not as much as the original, not as much as the 1990 Night of the Living Dead remake, but still enough to want to watch it again. I'm a hopeless zombie junkie.

 

[Kai Lord]

I thought Brett was looking for the alien at that point, which was still thought to be a baby (wasn't everyone looking for it all split up?), and he stumbled on the cat. He tried to get the cat, but then the alien got him... Ripley and her cat never bothered me; it was established very clearly and early on that she cared about him.

Brett, Parker, and Ripley were looking for the alien with their little makeshift motion tracker, but instead found the cat. The cat hissed and tried to get away so Brett let it go. Parker and Ripley then chided him since they didn't want the cat setting off the tracker again. So they sent Brett off alone to find the cat again and right there you just knew it was all over for him.

Even that was nowhere near as bad as the girl going for the dog in DotD, but it didn't ruin DotD, it was just another reason I considered it a "mixed bag" as opposed to an enthusiastic thumbs up.

 

[Jim Hague]

For heirlooms and pets immune to fire? I've never heard of that ever happening once.


Not quite. My first post gave specific examples of some of the things I both liked and disliked. Most everything else has been responses to posts like yours.


Nice try, but you'll need to to better than that. Even the people who disagree with my opinion concede that some of the characters in the movie are stupid and poorly written, but that they find clever writing and logical characters in horror films "boring."

Matt Frewer's daughter acted perfectly irrational and human when her dad was about to be capped - she ran off and hid, trying desperately to deny what was happening. Maybe you were out getting a drink when that scene came up?

And don't try ad absurdum arguments, please. I won't disagree that some of the characters were pure fodder...but at the same time, please note the focus of the story wasn't on them. It was on Ana, Ken, CJ, Michael and the rest. I'll even go out on a limb and say that some of the dead weight (the blonde hooker, the old man with the 'saw towards the end, the woman who drove the van to the mall) could have been left out. I've got no problem with it overall, simply because it's genre for there to be fodder characters. Don't like it? Go write a script.

As for the dog...I guess you would have been more interested in Stephen's ham sandwich idea, huh?

Guess what? The movie is full of people making stupid mistakes. Inevitably, they end up paying for those mistakes in some way. Even when those mistakes aren't their own. Just ask Andy.

 

[Kai Lord]

Matt Frewer's daughter acted perfectly irrational and human when her dad was about to be capped - she ran off and hid, trying desperately to deny what was happening. Maybe you were out getting a drink when that scene came up?

I'm not going repeat the difference between irrational behavior that makes sense in the context of a traumatic event (her father dying) and irrational behavior that makes sense only in the context of a bad horror movie scene (the doggy rescue.)

And don't try ad absurdum arguments, please. I won't disagree that some of the characters were pure fodder...

Who said anything about having a problem with fodder characters? I'll see your ad absurdum and raise you a straw man. And let me sweeten the pot with an ad hominem attack, reference to Nazi's, and a portrait of Bea Arthur.

As for the dog...I guess you would have been more interested in Stephen's ham sandwich idea, huh?

Or CJ could have just mentioned the sewer tunnel connecting the parking garage to the gun shop in the first place.

 

[mearls]

I'm not going repeat the difference between irrational behavior that makes sense in the context of a traumatic event (her father dying) and irrational behavior that makes sense only in the context of a bad horror movie scene (the doggy rescue.)

I think anyone's perspective on that scene might have something to do with their experience with dogs. I love animals, and I know people who have pets, and I can completely see that attempted rescue happening. A Google search turned up at least a dozen different news stories of people dying in an attempt to save a dog. For someone who bonds with a dog, it's the same as a friendship with another person.

 

[Kai Lord]

I think anyone's perspective on that scene might have something to do with their experience with dogs. I love animals, and I know people who have pets, and I can completely see that attempted rescue happening. A Google search turned up at least a dozen different news stories of people dying in an attempt to save a dog. For someone who bonds with a dog, it's the same as a friendship with another person.

And how many of those news stories featured people dying for dogs they'd owned for no more than a week or two and that weren't even in danger?