Dawnforge vs. Morningstar

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Both of these settings have a similar basis -- it's the golden age of heroes -- and both, I think, grew out of the WotC setting search. How do they compare beyond that? Are they really that similar, or are there other elements that I'm missing? How many extra rules does each setting have to model it?

 

[DMH]

I don't have Dawnforge so I really can't compare them, but I will try to answer your last question for Morningstar-

Not many. There are racial levels for the elves and dwarves (which can be ingnored with an LA), teleportation can be lethal if the moon is visible (the planet and the moon cause a magical blackhole between them), and there is an excess amount of magic that causes the land to warp when there are many intelligent, powerful beings in a small location. The last are called signatures and are the coolest idea in the whole book. But I don't think any of those have new rules, just changes to the old ones.

 

[Mouseferatu]

(Disclaimer: I worked on Dawnforge. However, I had no hand in designing it, or in the mechanics. I was brought on last minute to do two of the regional chapters. If you feel this biases me, well, I understand.)

Owning both of them, I have to say I prefer Dawnforge. It somehow strikes a chord with me that Morningstar doesn't.

Dawnforge also has a lot more mechanical rules/changes to support the style of the setting. That may be a positive or a negative for you, but there it is.

It should be noted that Dawnforge is a very high-powered setting. Your PCs will be tougher than characters of the same level from other settings. That said, the opposition is tougher, too.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Dawnforge is my favorite published D&D Setting to date.

 

[Turjan]

My main complaint with Morningstar is that it does not feel complete. On the other hand I found it a bit more original than Dawnforge, which came over as some variation of the Forgotten Realms with a bit of Dragonlance, Greyhawk and some other citations. Dawnforge makes definitely for good adventuring, but don't expect anything that strays too far from the norm .

 

[Crothian]

Morning Star is good, but it just doesn't cover enough for me. Like above I think it needs more. It is a cool setting with some great ideas but its lack of material just pales in comparison to Dawnforge. I like Dawnforge a lot.

 

[Zoatebix]

These accolades are enough to make one want to go out and buy Dawnforge. Time to sell stuff to get new stuff!

 

[RSKennan]

Incidentally, I prefer Morningstar. Not just because I wrote it, but because it took the road less travelled. I'm the first to admit that Dawnforge is much more polished- and its mechanics are tighter- but I think Morningstar is a 150 karat diamond in the rough. The book as written is *very* rough, however- so I'm not bragging.

I guess what I'm trying to say to everyone is that I agree with your assessments about Morningstar but you haven't seen the last of the setting. It was my first published work of any kind, and I honestly didn't know what I was doing. I wound up getting a bit muddled since I didn't quite know how to sustain my vision across the entire book. I do now.

At this very moment, I'm working on fixing the setting for a relaunch down the road. I'm leaving the dross and taking the gold from it to make something infinitely cooler. The rules I'm putting into playtest later this month give a lot of player options, and up the ante power-wise.

The setting itself is also getting a makeover-all of the hits are staying, and the misses are being retooled or cut. I'm being brutal.

This isn't any kind of formal announcment, but I just thought I'd let everyone know not to count Morningstar out yet.

Minor threadjack: If anyone wants to help with playtest, come on over to theCanticle.com and we can talk (Whizbang- that might be a good way to get introduced to the setting as I envision it). I'm taking my time this time around, and it's already apparent to me that the end-product will be a great improvement over the original. That's a good thing, since I lost a lot of sleep (yes, literally) over missed opportunities in the first book.

 

[Eremite]

While I liked the idea of Morningstar I chose Dawnforge because of the publisher.

While I realise a lot of people on these boards really like Goodman Games I personally find their products really sub-standard particularly when it comes to grasping rules (and making sure a 3.5E product doesn't use 3.0E rules). I have unfortunately bought a lot of GG products and each time has been a mistake. FFG, however, are one of my favourite publishers. Dawnforge is really good and Midnight is one of my favourite settings ever.

Anyway, I'm glad, RSKennan, that control of your IP has reverted to you. If you're going to re-release the setting as a non-GG product I'll definitely grab a copy.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Anyway, I'm glad, RSKennan, that control of your IP has reverted to you. If you're going to re-release the setting as a non-GG product I'll definitely grab a copy.

Has it reverted? I don't see that in his post. I agree with the assessment that it's a diamond in the rough. I really like the fact that Morningstar is a grand world with characters at high power levels. Tons of good ideas there. A lot of imagination and good culture in a Roman-style, as opposed to Medieval-style, fantasy world was another selling point for me. I'll be curious to see a rewrite.