DC of jumping from stalagmite to stalagmite

[Shoe]

Throwing together a LVL 3-5ish dungeon and I made a room that has no floor, but a bunch of really tall Stalagmite-like pillars that jut up from the ground far below. In the center of the room is a chest on a much larger platform. What skill checks/DC's would seem the most relevant/fair to get the player(s) (Probably just the rogue as this room is designed to create a cool feat for the roguish character to perform) to get there. Is that too difficult a feat for a level 3-5 rogue or ranger? Not sure of the party composition yet. Check out the "King of Omashu" episode of Avatar the last airbender for a similar scenario.

 

[Dandu]

There's a table for jump DCs, as well instructions on adjusting them for standing leaps.

 

[Persiflage]

Unless there's some cunning solution you've worked in there somehow, corssing the room you describe is going to take Climb and Jump checks, which rely on a stat that tends not to be a priority for Rogues. They're both class skills for Rogues, sure, but at that level they're not going to have many (if any) ranks.

When you say the room "has no floor", do that mean that any fall is instant death? If so, it's probably a bit much to expect a really low-level party to even attempt it... unless of course they've got a spellcaster capable of using alter self to turn into something that can fly. Designing an environment such as you describe is one of the enduring problems with 3.x DnD... by the time a (non-specialised) party member can reliably overcome such challenges with skill alone, the spellcasters can just bibbety-bobbety-boo the problem away.

It'll take a bit of creativity to set up a scenario like that which can be best overcome by the characters who you want to attempt it, unless one of them is a real climbing specialist.

 

[Shoe]

My inital thoughts were have it be a skill check or 2 that can be addressed in a couple different ways.

Jump check, then balance check (say DC15 each) for each stalagmite the character jumps onto. Climb checks if they fall to try and catch onto a stalagmite to save themselved...and yes the fall would likely kill them, but if they bring alot of rope they COULD just climb all the way down and then walk along the bottom...I dont want that to be an obvious option but if they have several party members with rope it should be a viable alternative.

OR

THe rogue could just make a DC 25-30 running jump check with a +2 bonus if they have 5+ ranks of balance to try and just jump to each one without stopping, but have a higher risk of falling (hince the high DC and probably a higher DC for the climb check to save themself after fallin too)

Does that sound interesting/Fair/Somewhat realistic? An aspect of realism or at least Cinematic Realism is Nessisary with the group I run for...I.E. they had a hard time believing that they could excape from glass tubes full of a liquid because they couldnt realisticly break the glass with so little ability to move.

Do my DC numbers sound close/fair/a good spot to make it a hard challange and make the rogue character/whoever attempts the feat feel good about successfully accomplishing the task but not too easy either?

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

There's a nice table for gauging DCs here. It's actually for Pathfinder, but I think it's very useful for any 3.5 derivative game.

It sounds like you've provided a fair number of reasonable ways to get past the challenges. I don't know how your players are equipped, but you might also want to be prepared for things like grappling hooks, as well.

If your players are striving for realism, then you're probably good to go, especially if they're fine with dying in the attempt.

 

[frankthedm]

What skill checks/DC's would seem the most relevant/fair to get the player(s) (Probably just the rogue as this room is designed to create a cool feat for the roguish character to perform) to get there.

The jumping DCs are simple and fair because they are based of distance jumped. Without a running start, your long jump DC is twice the distance in feet.

If your check succeeds, you land on your feet at the far end. If you fail the check by less than 5, you don’t clear the distance, but you can make a DC 15 Reflex save to grab the far edge of the gap. You end your movement grasping the far edge. If that leaves you dangling over a chasm or gap, getting up requires a move action and a DC 15 Climb check.

So a 3rd level character trained in jump with at least a 13 str would be able to take 10 and get a 9 foot jump [10+8, then halved]. The third level rogue would get 10 feet assuming again 13 str and a 2 point synergy from Tumble.

EDIT: Important thing to note

If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.

So MW full plate results in -11 on jump checks {move penalty and ACP]

 

[Shoe]

thanks, sounds like i had it pretty well under control. Does jump and balance seem like too many skill checks for it to be fun?

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Nice overview for approaching the DC question, frankthedm. Thanks for that.

One question though: Could a character take 10 to jump across a chasm? I'd be inclined to consider that "threatened or distracted" since there's a potential to get hurt.

But as always is the case on these things, the more I think about it, the more befuddled I get.

 

[anest1s]

It depends on how many checks will be needed...
The more jumps, the more probable is failure.

For example, if the rogue has +7 jump, and the dc is 10, he falls if he rolls 1 or 2 (which is 10% probability of falling) and 90% probability of success.
Like that, if he has to jump 6 pillars with a 10 dc, then the probability of jumping each of them without falling, is:

(9/10)^6=0.53

Which means that 47% he will fall (if I did the maths right).

Now with 14 dc he fails with 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 on the dice, which is a 30% probability to fall. If, in case he falls you allow him a climb check to get a hold and not drop, and we assume the rogue has a +7 climb, with a Climb dc of 17, then 50% of that time he will still survive. This brings the probability of failure down to 15%. And again, for 6 jumps we have

(85/100)^6=0.377149516 (37% probability of success) [ok now I get why they use the P(x) symbolism , for not writing all the time]


Then again, if you allow a jump, a climb to hold, and a second climb to stop somewhere lower, the probability of success goes up...

DC 15 jump (35% failure)
DC 15 climb (12% failure)
DC 15 climb (4% failure)
and the actual climb dc to climb up for the next jump
DC 15 climb (5.5% failure) [from the 8% who will fail the first climb and manage the second,15% will simply fall, by failing their climb by 5 or more )

Now for 6 jumps,

(94.5/100)^6=0.71 71% probability to success, 29% to fall.

Because for each additional "save" you allow and for each additional jump you ask you multiply, there is a great difference between making 4, 6 or 10 jumps...(80%, 71%, 56%)

And the point of my post is that the more you roll, the more you fail

Because your pc's will use rope


PS: If I totally failed the math, well, shame on me! But they will still use rope

PS2:
If the jump DC is 15, and if they succeed the DC to not fall is 15, then 57% they will fall...and even with your "save" only 80% will pass. (For just 1 jump)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You may think this is the type of room for a rogue to shine in, but it's really not...

Jump benefits from strength and speed. Rogue isn't inclined to stand out in either area. A Barbarian could handle it the best at levels 3-5, and it could be especially cool if he's using his rage for the jump bonus.

As someone else said, it's kind of a killjoy, but the absolute most effective way to handle it would be Alter Self (anything with a Fly speed).


Climb has a rule about making a check at -20 to catch yourself from a fall. You may want to use a similar rule of a climb check at a small penalty (like -5) to catch yourself if you fail the jump check by a small amount (by 5 ft or less?).

Yo might also want to use Unearthed Arcana's complex skill check rules, so that a single bad roll isn't a total failure. (Maybe a failed roll within the allowed amount of failures is treated as the character about to jump off, only to stop himself at the last possible second when he realizes he's not going to get a good enough push off)