De-powering Comprehend Languages?

[Malin Genie]

I find that the first level spell comprehend languages makes Decipher Script and Speak Language skills much less useful than they could be. It also destroys a lot of the potential inherent in objects like ancient treasure maps written in a long-forgotten tongue.

So a couple of proposals; I would be interested in feedback, or alternative proposals....

(1) Comprehend Languages works like the clerical spell Find Traps - it grants a +1/caster level bonus to Decipher Script skill, and allows the skill to be used (with 1/2 rank) if the caster does not have any ranks in it.

This way Decipher Script is still a valuable skill (to use in concert with the spell,) and given that failure or misinterpretation are still possible with the use of the spell, speaking a few languages amongst the party members is helpful.

(2) Comprehend Languages only works on 'modern' languages, or a certain defined set of languages.

This makes Decipher Script necessary for 'old' or 'obscure' languages, while still making comprehend languages useful for the majority of writings the characters will encounter.

(3) No comprehend languages spell.

This makes Speak Language and/or Decipher Script vital for understanding writings.

 

[Quickleaf]

I would ditch comprehend languages. In its place, you could have a spell that helps to break secret codes, adding +1 to your cryptography check per caster level. Thus, the spell could help to crack an encoded book, but not to understand what the foreign-language message means.

If you're getting rid of comprehend languages, I'd also suggest tossing the tongues spell in favor of a more setting appropriate alternative. How about Extraordinarily Puissant Pantomime? Building on one or two words known in common, and furious gesturing and expressive faces, you can convey/receive surprisingly complex messages.
Adventurer 'speaks' with his head-hunting host."Light is both a particle and a wave." "Oh really? Try the live eel, it's really outstanding. I look forward to learning all about the shooting through double slits experiment." "Delicious, thank you. By the way, have you seen my minstrel?" *burp*

 

[arscott]

What if Comprehend languages couldn't translate written works? That way, you couldn't use it to find the lost treasure of troutville, but you could still understand what the lizardman king was babbling about.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Comprehend Languages doesn't decipher codes. It says so right in the spell. It just translates the language into something the caster can understand.

For example, if I write out a code in Russian (using the Russian alphabet), Comprehend Languages will enable the reader to know what a Russian "A" looks like in English, and so on. But the code itself still needs to be deciphered. You can think of the spell as translating all the letters but not rearranging them to reveal their hidden meaning.

 

[Tessarael]

Personally, I would get rid of Comprehend Languages and spells like it that are way better than skills. The other option is to allow it to give a limited skill bonus - I would make that max out at +5.

 

[Roman]

Languages work more similarly to skills in my campaign world. Comprehend languages grants +5 bonus for the duration of the spell to one language of the caster's choosing. The Tongues spell does the same, but the bonus is +10.

5 ranks in a language equal crude ability to communicate in the language.
10 ranks in a language equal standard ability to communicate in the language.

 

[dvvega]

Actually comprehend languages would make cracking a code that much hard I think.

Since it lets you comprehend the language, it could translate a passage of text that was encoded and you would receive the Common translation, but the encoding nuances would be lost int he translation (think of puns in other languages, they rarely translate well).

It only allows comprehension of what is said/written in a language you understand, it doesn't give you the solution.

So what if they read the back of the talisman and understand it say "by the light of the sky orb I will reveal myself". Great ... which orb? There are thousands of planets out there ... and who will reveal themselves? An evil god? More writing on the talisman? That will need another spell. Dammit I only memorised 1 today.

It is pretty much controlled by the number of memorisations.

 

[isoChron]

What if Comprehend languages couldn't translate written works? That way, you couldn't use it to find the lost treasure of troutville, but you could still understand what the lizardman king was babbling about.

Touching the lizardman king could be a very provocative action...


SRD:
Comprehend Languages

Divination

Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level
You can understand the spoken words of creatures or read otherwise incomprehensible written messages. In either case, you must touch the creature or the writing. The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning. The spell enables you to understand or read an unknown language, not speak or write it.

Written material can be read at the rate of one page (250 words) per minute. Magical writing cannot be read, though the spell reveals that it is magical. This spell can be foiled by certain warding magic (such as the secret page and illusory script spells). It does not decipher codes or reveal messages concealed in otherwise normal text.

Comprehend languages can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Arcane Material Component: A pinch of soot and a few grains of salt.

Bold passages are the key to the spells power.

 

[Vlos]

I sort of like the idea of languages as skills. The question is what skill levels (DC) is required for specific things. The following may be a bit too much though, but just some initial thoughts.

Known Language DCs:
Speaking crudely - DC 5 (some barbarians may not speak well at all)
Speaking - DC 10
Speaking with Acent - DC 20
Speaking with unused/ancient Accent - DC 0?

Reading basic - DC 5
Reading - DC 10
Reading Encoded (or is this a separate skill Cryptography with synergy bonus)
Writting basic 10
Writting 15
Writting Encoded (or is this a separate skill Cryptography with synergy bonus)

Also many dialects are similar, so should there be synergy bonuses?

Characters would start with a number of languages equal to the INT modifier with a starting skill bonus of (INT - 10 [min 1]).

Unknown languages is -20 without any ranks in a language.

Similar languages grant a +2 synergy bonus with 5 or more ranks in similar unknown language.

And the Comprehend languages would grant a +5 while Tounges would grant +10.

Ok maybe too complex...

 

[Ferret]

(2) Comprehend Languages only works on 'modern' languages, or a certain defined set of languages.

This makes Decipher Script necessary for 'old' or 'obscure' languages, while still making comprehend languages useful for the majority of writings the characters will encounter.

I like this, maybe more 'restrictions' so that bartering for goods, saying someone has been killed, asking for the time is possible; but saying that the sword you found was the one used to found the town and is particularily good at slaying orcs, would be harder.