I agree with two. Some things in the game are best left vague, ambiguous and totally cinematic.
Deadly, Undetectable Traps
- Thread starter Elephant
- Start date
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
There is no good reason to attempt to make a strong distinction between what is possible by "magical" means and "mundane" means. Anything with a DC of 25+ looks pretty much impossible to the eye of a normal man anyway. Would you believe tightrope walking was possible if you had never seen it?
For all I care, we can say the Rogue's special ability is magical.
I would also point out that if the Rogue opens the door 1 millimeter and the trap goes off on the inside, he is usually completely protected because there is no line of effect. What is an open door and what is a closed door is much more ambiguous than you might think.
It is possible that spells with triggers are not as cut and dried as a plain reading of the text might suggest. Maybe there is a tickle of warmth when a Firetrap is close to erupting and a skilled enough observer can wave his fingers near the trigger point and draw the right conclusions?
Would anyone out there actually want to play a game where the DM and players would have to read excruciatingly detailed spell descriptions that covered this kind of thing?
For all I care, we can say the Rogue's special ability is magical.
I would also point out that if the Rogue opens the door 1 millimeter and the trap goes off on the inside, he is usually completely protected because there is no line of effect. What is an open door and what is a closed door is much more ambiguous than you might think.
It is possible that spells with triggers are not as cut and dried as a plain reading of the text might suggest. Maybe there is a tickle of warmth when a Firetrap is close to erupting and a skilled enough observer can wave his fingers near the trigger point and draw the right conclusions?
Would anyone out there actually want to play a game where the DM and players would have to read excruciatingly detailed spell descriptions that covered this kind of thing?
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Well, for starters
"To be effective, a symbol of death must always be placed in plain sight and in a prominent location."
So - I'd say it's only going to work if it's on the outside of the door, or it doesn't work. Behind me and above my head doesn't qualify as "a prominent location".
Beyond that - the search DC is a 33, and can ONLY be found by a rogue. That's pretty high. I'd say it's reasonable to assume that the rogue
a) Notes debris of powdered opal and diamond, along with some traces of mercury and phosphorus, the required material components of the spell.
b) Feels a prickling on the back of his neck.
c) Uses a mirror to check.
d) Has an insect in a jar that he passes through the portal, triggering the trap without being subject to it himself
e) Taps on the lintel of the door, and notices a different sound from that part of the wood
Remember - the guy got a 33! Either he spent 2 minutes because he was sure that the door was trapped, or he got lucky and rolled a 20. Or he's just that damn good.
So no - he finds the trap.
"To be effective, a symbol of death must always be placed in plain sight and in a prominent location."
So - I'd say it's only going to work if it's on the outside of the door, or it doesn't work. Behind me and above my head doesn't qualify as "a prominent location".
Beyond that - the search DC is a 33, and can ONLY be found by a rogue. That's pretty high. I'd say it's reasonable to assume that the rogue
a) Notes debris of powdered opal and diamond, along with some traces of mercury and phosphorus, the required material components of the spell.
b) Feels a prickling on the back of his neck.
c) Uses a mirror to check.
d) Has an insect in a jar that he passes through the portal, triggering the trap without being subject to it himself
e) Taps on the lintel of the door, and notices a different sound from that part of the wood
Remember - the guy got a 33! Either he spent 2 minutes because he was sure that the door was trapped, or he got lucky and rolled a 20. Or he's just that damn good.
So no - he finds the trap.
Elephant
First Post
Saeviomagy said:
So...if you pass through a portal bearing the rune going one way, you trigger it, but if you turn around and walk through the other way, it's harmless? I don't think so.
Your other thoughts have merit, however. I like the idea of noticing debris, having his trouble sense activating, or using a mirror. Heck, he could even lean in and look - the spell says *pass through*, not *poke your hand through and draw it back again*.
The insect, though...nah. He'd still be within 60 feet and therefore be subject to the effects.
Last edited:
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
The page image is down at the moment, but assuming it comes back, check out this issue of Order of the Stick
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=192
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=192
apesamongus
First Post
Sounds good to me. Magic should be wacky like that.Elephant said:
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
That doesn't matter in the slightest. The spell is a burst, emanating from the symbol. If you can't SEE the symbol, it doesn't hit you with the burst, because line of sight and effect are blocked.Elephant said:
Therefore the insect test works (for THIS trap anyway)
And if you want to consider how it is that a rogue always has a live insect with him, ask the wizard how it is that he's got the component for spider climb...
vulcan_idic
Explorer
apesamongus said:
And really in many cases it would make sense. The purpose of locking trapping any given room is generally one of two things:
(1) To keep someone/thing out
(2) To keep someone/thing in
Thus it would make sense to have a trap with an direction oriented one direction this could help keep people out (for example) while minimizing the danger for you if you needed to use the same door to make a hasty getaway.
It is interesting to note two things as I think on this - the orientation of the "trap" and the lock need not be the same, and the "trap", in the sense of an event triggered by a specific action, need not be harmful at all. In such a way you could replicate a modern fire exit locked from the outside and "trapped" from the inside such that it sets off the fire alarm when used. Or, in the case, perhaps, of a treasure room. you would want a lethal entry trap and an alarm exit trap - so if they get through alive and take your stuff you (hopefully) know about it. It always did confuse me though why treasure rooms in D&D have such fiendishly diffcult traps, sometimes without a method of circumvetion... wouldn't that preclude the treasures owner from accessing and utilizing it? This is of course not applicable in the case of a tomb (unless home of an undead)... I can imagine a smart, but paranoid and somewhat absent minded mage putting the perfect trap setup on his treasure hoard... but forgetting to make a key/password to get him through. Not having a rogue around, and having forgotten this problem (due to his absent-mindedness) he walks into his treasure room and is killed by his own trap. Which come to think of it could make a really cool murder mystery adventure - the PCs are put to discover the untimely death of a powerful mage under mysterious circumstances in his own home... only to discover it was his own fault! Anyway, sorry for the tangent!!
edit: grammar fix
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