Dealing with the low-Cha party

[Pbartender]

So indulge me a little. How would you demonstrate that Cha is not a dump-stat to those players whose PCs' interaction with NPCs consists of killing them and taking their stuff?

The same way that I taught my players that Necromancers, Enchanters and Illusionists are worthwhile and powerful choices for wizard specialization...

You set a good example through your NPCs.

Create a BBEG who is the epitome of what you want your characters to be. Make him the same level as the PCs. Create him using only the Core Rulebooks. And always play strictly by the book whenever they encounter him... Do not cheat under any circumstances.

For you, this character should be a behind-the-scenes kingpin. He is so charismatic that he simplyy does need to get hiw own hands dirty. He has extremely loyal expert troubleshooters (Leadership feat) to do the job for him. He can effectively cut off the PCs' supply lines by ruining their reputations and credibility (through quietly subtle Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate checks with the townspeople) in every town they visit. No one will want to do business with them, no one will want to give them information, no will want to give them any assistance. Violence will not get them any leeway, but instead thrown in jail by the magistrate (who may also be in the pocket of the BBEG).

Show them what you CAN do with a high charisma, make it a liability, but do it in a way that shows them the out-of-combat benefits of having the ability, rather than showing them the in-combat disadvantages of not having it.

 

[Thanee]

Just give them the chance to earn huge amounts of wealth, but they have to behave properly in the presence of a noble (and of course, once they are there, you'll have them make Cha checks with a moderate DC (like 15) all the time to see if their characters do have the necessary manners not to insult the noble and so on; oh, they can use Diplomacy as well, if they have ranks in the skill, naturally).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

Introduce another adventurers group who claims all the victories and dead baddies of your group (and claims all the rewards). That will hurt them.

 

[Particle_Man]

Chaos Beast

 

[Chimera]

Slightly off-topic, but not really...

It was serendipitous that Al'Kelhar happen to ask for Charisma draining options just a few hours after the Psion player of my game group said something about using the power I gave above as a way to deal with Sorcerers.

 

[Dave Turner]

It sounds to me like you're heading for an IRL train wreck in that group. You and your players seem to have conflicting game desires and goals.

They all chose low CHA PCs because they don't want their characters to get involved in the social side of the game. You said that they become adolescent in the game. They probably just want to crawl dungeons, fight things, and take their stuff. Their CHA choices seem to back this up.

You, on the other hand, have a different idea about how the game should go. You want to do the social thing, with some intrigue, role-playing, and characterization. As the DM, you wield tremendous power and run tremendous risk. You can use your DM muscle to punish the players for their refusal to play the type of game you want to play, but that'll just breed resentment. It will seem like a punishment.

You need to have a frank discussion with the players about what kind of game you all want to enjoy together. Compromises will need to be made on both sides. It is unfair to look for ways to punish the players for wanting to enjoy the game in their own way.

 

[Dark Jezter]

After reading this thread, I'm gonna have to agree with Dave Turner. It looks like what we're witnessing here is a conflict of play styles: The PCs just want to go dungeon crawling, kill monsters, and have fun. The DM, on the other hand, wants to have a more story-driven, roleplaying-heavy game.

My advice to Al'Kelhar: Punishing your players is not the best thing to do. Flexing your DM muscles to try and force the players into adopting a different style of play will just lead to a lot of anger and resentment at the gaming table. The game is meant to be enjoyed by everybody, including the DM. Talk to your players and let them know that you'd like to have a little roleplaying in the game every now and then, but don't forget their needs and neglect to include battles and dungeon crawls.

 

[Kealios]

Honestly, I think Pbartender had the best solution, and I'll add some of my own opinion here:

The players want a hack-and-slash, and the DM wants the PC's to be a little better rounded than they are now, so...

The BBEG who works socially behind the scenes is an excellent way to get the players involved. While some may consider it malicious, you can kill two birds with one stone here: the DM gets his social fix and, to a lesser degree, some "revenge" on the players, and the players will get more opportunities to kill stuff (the BBEG will eventually rile someone up to the point of violence, and then its on...).

This way, the PC's can continue with their munchkinism, which the DM can accomodate with the encounters he builds and throws at the players, and the DM can work subtely to show the players that CHA is a valid and indeed valued stat in a roleplaying sense. You force your players to roll enough Diplomacy and Gather Information rolls, and they'll begin to visually see that a low CHA can hurt (even in combat! A wandering cleric who comes by after a fight might gladly heal a thankful, charasmatic group for a small donation, but a rude group sours his stomach as he hurries on...).

That's my two cents. Put enough well-rounded encounters in your game, combat- and role-playing oriented both, and the players will learn to better balance their characters (or not, and enjoy the chaotic aftermath of socially-inept personalities, which could be an exciting role-playing twist in and of itself).

My (not so) humble opinion,
Kealios

p.s. The players in my game are in a similar situation, although not because they min-maxed the cha score (there are a few 10-12's in the group, on average). They simply didnt focus on social skills, and are now realizing that they are truly hindered in some non-combat settings (finding vendors to buy from or sell to, how much they get as a result of those bargaining sessions, discovering information in any given town about whatever they wat to, etc...). Theyre feeling it It makes for a good game, with the players being hyper-aware of their deficiencies.