D&D 5E Death and 0 Max HP

[Hriston]

No it's not. what happens normally is your hit point maximum is unaffected entirely.

That’s what I just said. The hit point maximum reducing effect of the bite is not normal. It reduces your hit point maximum. After that, normal processes resume, and your hit point maximum stays at its new reduced value (until you finish a long rest).

There is no "normally" when talking about maximum hit points being reduced. Something reduced them, and something is keeping them reduced or there would not be continued reduction.

The vampire's bite is what reduced your hit point maximum. The reduction is just what it is, the fact of your hit point maximum being less than it was before you were bitten. That's what continues to be the case until some hit point maximum restoring effect undoes the effect of the vampire's bite. The reduction caused by the vampire's bite has the special property that it can be undone by finishing a long rest. Your hit point maximum staying reduced until an effect undoes the reduction is perfectly normal. Normally, your hit point maximum doesn't change from whatever it is unless you gain a level or increase your CON modifier.

Why is max hit points reduced in the first place? It's not necrotic damage that does it, because lots of things do necrotic damage and max hit points don't get reduced.

Your hit point maximum is reduced because that's one of the effects of being bitten by a vampire. The bite does what it says it does.

 

[Hriston]

Nobody on our side is confusing anything. Disagreement with you does not imply confusion. It's just a different, but valid opinion we have about how the attack works.

I didn't mean to imply that you were confused, just that you were conflating the reduction of the target's hit point maximum with the effect that reduces the target's hit point maximum and kills the target if it reduces the target's hit point maximum to 0. Is that not the case?

 

[Hriston]

Your interpretation is equally valid. I just don't agree with you that the hit point maximum is mystically reduced by nothing. All the bite does is necrotic damage and we know that necrotic damage does not reduce maximum hit points. My interpretation that there is some other effect going on that is reducing maximum hit points, and since necrotic damage doesn't kill at 0 max hit points, is also responsible for the death, is just as reasonable.

I never said that the target's hit point maximum is reduced by nothing. The target's hit point maximum is reduced as one of the effects of the vampire's bite. I agree with you that this effect is separate from the bite's necrotic damage, which is why I laid out the various effects of the bite up-thread. It's good enough for me, however, to simply say that all of these effects are caused by the bite without positing any mystical intermediary phenomena. We're talking about a vampire after all!

 

[Maxperson]

I never said that the target's hit point maximum is reduced by nothing. The target's hit point maximum is reduced as one of the effects of the vampire's bite. I agree with you that this effect is separate from the bite's necrotic damage, which is why I laid out the various effects of the bite up-thread. It's good enough for me, however, to simply say that all of these effects are caused by the bite without positing any mystical intermediary phenomena. We're talking about a vampire after all!

We know for a fact, though, that there is an ongoing effect on the body that extends after both the last bite and death. Otherwise there wouldn't be anything to trigger the rising within a day if buried. We feel that the ongoing effect would also kill again, you don't. Both of our interpretations are valid.

 

[Hriston]

We know for a fact, though, that there is an ongoing effect on the body that extends after both the last bite and death. Otherwise there wouldn't be anything to trigger the rising within a day if buried. We feel that the ongoing effect would also kill again, you don't. Both of our interpretations are valid.

This is the conflation I was talking about. Not only is the target rising as a vampire spawn a tertiary effect of the vampire's bite, but it's also an effect of the target being a humanoid and being buried in the ground. Why would that effect kill you when that's not what it says it does?

The killing effect follows immediately upon the target's hit point maximum being reduced to 0, which follows immediately upon a hit because that's what the bite says it does.

 

[Maxperson]

This is the conflation I was talking about. Not only is the target rising as a vampire spawn a tertiary effect of the vampire's bite, but it's also an effect of the target being a humanoid and being buried in the ground. Why would that effect kill you when that's not what it says it does?

The killing effect follows immediately upon the target's hit point maximum being reduced to 0, which follows immediately upon a hit because that's what the bite says it does.

Except it isn't conflation. It's interpretation. You view the effect as tertiary. I don't. I see it as part of the same effect that kills the victim. Both views are valid views. At this point that's the main contention. We see both interpretations as valid. Your side seems to view your interpretation as the one true way.

 

[DND_Reborn]

 

[Maxperson]

View attachment 107634

The problem with that picture is that the rules don't mention vampire attack draining blood, so that's an assumption on our part apparently.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The problem with that picture is that the rules don't mention vampire attack draining blood, so that's an assumption on our part apparently.

How can you tell it is draining the blood? Maybe the blood is just flowing from the wound, as blood does when the target is bitten. I guess that is your interpretation. I hope it is valid! j/k

 

[jaelis]

So here’s an actual argument to consider. There are many effects that reduce your max hp. As far as I recall, all of them say you die if it is reduced to zero. You could reasonably generalize from that that you always die if your max hp is zero.